Whining on the boards and rule zero

[Inyssius]

Tomtill, you have a hell of a point.

There is a problem there, though; some people have been dealing solely with nerdrage bitchy complaints for so long that they automatically see every comment, no matter how nice or valid or interesting it may be, as a whiny rant--and respond with offended whiny counter-rants of their own.

Then you've got yet another flame-war--even if the original poster keeps his or her posts interesting and nice, his or her raging "opponent" will draw angry posters on both sides of the new (and entirely unnecessary) argument like soldier bees to... something that kills bees, I guess.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The former class of question is helpful to everybody. The latter class is just noise.

The former class assumes that someone wants direct constructive help in their game.

This may not always be the case.

When it is, addressing it helps people make their own games better, and that's good.

The latter class is an emotional reaction, more of a criticism. They're not looking for advice, they're looking for an explanation, a justification, something that excuses the action.

This isn't always the case, either.

When it is, addressing it helps figure out what people want in a tabletop game, thus making everyone's games better, and that's good.

On a public message board discussing D&D, you are going to see criticisms, and you're going to have to deal with them constructively, even when they are worded emotionally. It's not just noise. It's not just whining. It's not phrased the best way, but in addressing the post, you hopefully help that person to figure out how to be more constructive with their criticism.

By belittling these remarks, you're just agitating those who post them by trying to make their opinions insignificant.

They're not asking how to FIX the problem.

They're asking why this problem was caused in the first place.

They're just wording it like a jerk.

 

[brislove]

The fact that a group is able to change the rules, doesn't make bad rules any better...

+1 again.

If I was to whine about anything D&D forum activists do it would be - when they whine about some fluff change that they don't like, and say that because of that the system isn't for them.

the time-line going 100 years forward doesn't make the game system worse, just run a campaign out of your old FRCS for fluff if you love it and know it that well, it shouldn't be difficult.

People saying they won't buy the new FRCS because of those changes is perfectly reasonable, but saying that 4e is a bad rules system because the realms changed time periods is annoying.

Rule 0ing half the rules doesn't really work either, because at some point you just aren't playing the same game you started playing.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Generally, the feeling around here is that "Just use Rule 0" does not really address the problem at hand. It's not always easy to just ignore or change rules; the former can have consequences on other parts of the game, while the latter can be just plain difficult (game design is not easy).

As someone who has responded with "just use rule 0" but is trying to change his tune on that front, it can be really frustrating when you're seeking a genuine solution to a problem and a person's response is "just fix it yourself."

As for the whining... well, there's little excuse for that. Some are genuinely upset that 4e does not represent the game they want to play. Their response is to disparage the game, because it is not going in the direction they would like.

 

[Inyssius]

I think it's the unnatural attempt to co-exist that's raising tensions around here. Until one side wins completely, that is.

YES! Exactly! Why can't they just see that we're totally right about everything!?

 

[Voss]

I dunno. Sometimes people are so rabid over a piddling little rule that it seems necessary to remind them of rule zero.

I don't know. It often comes across as contemptuously dismissing someone else's concerns because the rule/concept/whatever that doesn't bother the person replying. There is often a definite subtext of 'It doesn't bother me, so your concern is unjustified and you should just shut up'.


@AZRogue... wow, thats an... extreme... position to take.

 

[Kitirat]

I dont understand all the whining that goes on here.

I used to play DDO and it was understandable- when something in the game is unbalanced, it actually affects players and they are generally helpless to do anything about it.

So why come here to whine about the paladin challenge, or the town of winterhaven having more people than it can house, or friggin laser beams (at least a funny title)?

Rule zero in DDO was "turbine makes all the rules". Its not the same in DnD.

Or am I the one who is whining about what is, actually, constructive criticism?

Actually, my friggen laser beam post was not to complain, it was to get people who had seen the KotS preview to post the at-wills fo the cleric since I personally dis-liked the DDXP character's "laser beams".

 

[drjones]

The internet is truly a godsend to opinionated nit-pickers everywhere. Back in the day they just had to bother their pets/zine reader/upstairs neighbor but now they can bother thousands with the touch of a button!

Often there is nothing new or 'important' to talk about so it hardly matters but because every preview turns into 50% "well my opinion is.." and 50% "but if the angels are dancing clockwise then it is utterly preposterous that more than 19thousand..". So anymore I go to wotc site first to actually get something interesting to read and skip the junk here.

But trolls are trolls, any response is a good one and makes them feel better about themselves/less lonely so whacha gonna do? Oh yeah, ignore em.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Well, I for one am disappointed at the signal/noise ratio on these boards.

Welcome to the Internet. Also, learn to be picky about which threads you actually read. It usually only takes me 30 seconds or so of skimming to realize if the thread is going somehwhere I'm actually interested in.

I would like to see the boards as a resource for DM/players to use to share ideas and to help with rules interpretations.

Wait two months. One to get the rules, another to have actually read and playtested a few of them. Intelligent discussion about the rules really isn't possible until then.

At this point it just seems pointless. I mean, do you really care what I like or don't like about 4e?

Sometimes hearing what bothers people helps you pin down what's been bothering you. Although it's not germane to this thread, reading Philotomy Jurament's musings on the Thief class helped me figure out what always had been bugging me about the Skill system, and how to fix it (for my tastes, of course).

I'm sort of waiting for all the sour grapes to move on by, so the 4e board can focus on ways to get the best from the 4e game, instead of continuing to complain how it just isn't to their liking.

Hopefully once 4E is actually out a community will form around people who actually play the game and want to improve their game, and people who just want to complain that 4E is destroying the dreams of their childhood (yes, I've seen that posted here) will find their way elsewhere.

 

[Piratecat]

Well, I for one am disappointed at the signal/noise ratio on these boards.

...I'm sort of waiting for all the sour grapes to move on by, so the 4e board can focus on ways to get the best from the 4e game, instead of continuing to complain how it just isn't to their liking.

Wait a month. Once people are discussing actual rules, we'll see a big increase in the signal to noise ratio that will carry forward for some time. It's always tough when we're waiting, without being able to see the big picture.