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Whirtlestaff's Wizards' Academy Revisited, OOC01

Ok, we can do some of that. Anyone who wants to can copy spells while the journey is in progress. Given the cramped quarters, the motion of the ship, and similar things, you can only complete two days' worth of work, however. Supplies will have been bought before you leave, so that's not a problem. Just figure the usual cost and deduct that amount. By going slowly and carefully, and limiting yourself to two days' of copying, you can roll the spellcraft checks with no penalty. If you want to get in a full 5 days' worth of work, there will be a -3 circumstance modifier to all spellcraft checks, due to the motion of the ship, poor lighting, and the annoying musty smell.
 
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Leif said:
Not according to MY ph! Druid1 1 is ZERO. Wizard3 is +1. Tylara's total BAB according to the ph, is +1.

So what you are saying is that even though Druids are better in combat overall, Tylara will be giving up a combat bonus for taking a druid level over a wizard level? As a 4th level Wizard she would have a +2. That sort of silliness went out of the game years ago. Fractional bonuses are the only logical way to proceed. Are you going to insist that Tylara's bab is only +1 with her current slate of levels?
 

Scotley said:
That sort of silliness went out of the game years ago. Fractional bonuses are the only logical way to proceed. Are you going to insist that Tylara's bab is only +1 with her current slate of levels?
SHEESH, Scotley! Who peed on your cheerios this morning? (Wasn't me, I promise!) While you may claim that it's "logical", I see no rule for the fractional bonuses. Got one for me? Under the present state of my understanding of the situation, if I did relent and let you keep the +2 BAB now, then when Tylara's BAB would next go up a point, you would have to forego that point at that time to get her back on track. In other words, unless you can show me a reason with good rules support, my ruling stands, but I will allow you to gain a point of BAB early, providing that if you take it now, you can't take it again later (since it's the same point after all). 3.5 Druids are just not melee machines, especially at low levels. If it's BAB you're after, a level of fighter or ranger would work much better, and also provide more hit points, and weapon and armor proficiencies. This ruling is dependent upon my present understanding of the rules. If you tell me about a rule that allows the fractional bonuses in circumstances like this, then that will change everything.
 

renau1g said:
Do you wish us to RP the discussion with other wizards in order to exchange some spells?
Yeah, I'd like to see the character interaction. But I don't want to clutter the IC thread with that kind of "housekeeping" chore, so just RP it here in the OOC thread. Yeah, that's not really OOC is it? But can't we make this one exception??
 

Leif said:
SHEESH, Scotley! Who peed on your cheerios this morning? (Wasn't me, I promise!) While you may claim that it's "logical", I see no rule for the fractional bonuses. Got one for me? Under the present state of my understanding of the situation, if I did relent and let you keep the +2 BAB now, then when Tylara's BAB would next go up a point, you would have to forego that point at that time to get her back on track. In other words, unless you can show me a reason with good rules support, my ruling stands, but I will allow you to gain a point of BAB early, providing that if you take it now, you can't take it again later (since it's the same point after all). 3.5 Druids are just not melee machines, especially at low levels. If it's BAB you're after, a level of fighter or ranger would work much better, and also provide more hit points, and weapon and armor proficiencies. This ruling is dependent upon my present understanding of the rules. If you tell me about a rule that allows the fractional bonuses in circumstances like this, then that will change everything.

I'm not trying to pull some lame munchkin superpower out of my ass here. If Tylara were a 4th level wizard her bab would be +2. I'm only suggesting that Tylara's base attack bonus not be lower than it would be had she taken 4 levels of wizard rather than 1 level of Druid and three levels of wizard. I am only asking that she have the logical progression of a wizard not some extra bonus. As a Druid actually has better numbers than a wizard it seemed ridiculas that taking a level in that class should result in a lower net bab. As for a rule, it can be found below. Please see the accompanying spreadsheet for a full break down.

The following is taken from a sidebar in Unearthed Arcana (p. 73)

FRACTIONAL BASE BONUSES
The progressions of base attack bonuses and base save bonuses
in the Player’s Handbook increase at a fractional rate, but
those fractions are eliminated due to rounding. For single-class
characters, this rounding isn’t significant, but for multiclass characters,
this rounding often results in reduced base attack and
base save bonuses.
For example, a 1st-level rogue/1st-level wizard has a base
attack bonus (BAB) of +0 from each class, resulting in a total
BAB of +0. But that’s only due to the rounding of each fractional
value down to 0 before adding them together—the character
actually has BAB +3/4 from her rogue level and BAB +1/2 from
her wizard level. If the rounding was done after adding together
the fractional values, rather than before, the character would
have BAB +1 (rounded down from 1-1/4).
The table below presents fractional values for the base save
and base attack bonuses presented in Table 3–1 in the Player’s
Handbook. To determine the total base save bonus or base attack
bonus of a multiclass character, add together the fractional values
gained from each of her class levels.
For space purposes, the table does not deal with the multiple
attacks gained by characters with a base attack bonus of
+6 or greater. A second attack is gained when a character’s
total BAB reaches +6, a third at +11, and a fourth at +16, just
as normal.
This variant is ideal for campaigns featuring many multiclass
characters, since it results in their having slightly higher base
save and base attack bonuses than in a standard game.
For example, in a standard game, a 5th-level cleric/2nd-level
fighter would have base save bonuses of Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +4.
In this variant, the same character would have Fort +7 (rounded
down from +7-1/2), Ref +2 (rounded down from +2-1/3), and
Will +5 (rounded down from +5-1/6).
Another example: A standard 2nd-level rogue/9th-level wizard
would have a base attack bonus of +5, +1 from rogue and +4
from wizard. Using the fractional system, that character’s base
attack bonus would be +6, +1-1/2 from rogue and +4-1/2 from
wizard, enough to gain a second attack at a +1 bonus.
—Andy Collins
 

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Problem with your table: the Average BAB actually goes DOWN by .25 from first to second level! (As near as I can tell, avg. BAB for 2nd level should be 1.25. That glaring mistake calls into question the entire table, imho.) Good thing we're already above 2nd level, huh? What does everybody else say? Want to do it this way?

OH, and one more thing -- if we use this table, ALL fractions will be dropped once the final total is achieved. (No rounding up from, say, 1.75 to 2).

And, Scotley, you should have asked me about this before you just used it. Unearthed Arcana was not on the list of allowable sources.
 
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Leif said:
Yeah, I'd like to see the character interaction. But I don't want to clutter the IC thread with that kind of "housekeeping" chore, so just RP it here in the OOC thread. Yeah, that's not really OOC is it? But can't we make this one exception??

My thoughts exactly, I didn't want to clutter the IC, but I didn't want to just say ok Scotley I'll just grab a couple of your characters spells.
 

Another Change -- MAX HP

Everyone needs to adjust his character -- New rule is that all pcs get MAX hp for all hit dice.
 

Leif said:
Problem with your table: the Average BAB actually goes DOWN by .25 from first to second level! (As near as I can tell, avg. BAB for 2nd level should be 1.225. That glaring mistake calls into question the entire table, imho.) Good thing we're already above 2nd level, huh? What does everybody else say? Want to do it this way?

OH, and one more thing -- if we use this table, ALL fractions will be dropped once the final total is achieved. (No rounding up from, say, 1.75 to 2).

And, Scotley, you should have asked me about this before you just used it. Unearthed Arcana was not on the list of allowable sources.

Whoa, sorry, transfering the data into excel from the book was a mistake. Excel saw the numbers in the book 1-1/2 not as 1 and 1/2, but 1 minus 1/2 or .5. I'll have to fix the table to match the book. Should have checked it.

As to the rule, while it is in a 'non-core' book that particular usage has fallen into common practice and I didn't even consider what book it was originally found in as I calculated the numbers. Anyway, in future I shall exercise more care in securing permission for rules use.
 

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