Whirtlestaff's Wizards' Academy Revisited, OOC01

[Leif]

... and any comments as to me being a rules lawyer i can only say this:
no comment.

Well said, Counselor! You definitely should sign up to take the LSAT at your earliest convenience! -- Leif, DM/lawyer

 

[Leif]

Latest House Rule on "Holding the Charge"

After more thought, here is what I propose:

When "Holding the Charge," you must voluntarily release the spell energy within 2 MINUTES per spell level, or the energy will dissipate. This is much more restrictive than my previous ruling of a flat 1 hour for a spell of any level, but it still gives you 12 rounds within which to score a hit with a Shocking Grasp, which seems more than adequate to me. I'm not totally committed to this latest ruling, and I am open to suggestions. But I do like making the time allowed for discharge dependent upon the level of the spell (or maybe Caster Level). But the way it is phrased here seems to me to be the best way to handle it. Comments, anyone?

I have started a new thread in the House Rules forum to invite comments on this from other EnWorlders, and here's the link: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=4278707#post4278707 . As I said, any/all comments are invited.

And I also added this new wrinkle, too: If the character is touched by, for example, the character's melee opponent making a touch attack against the character, then the spell may be immediately discharged against the opponent touching the character as an Immediate Action, thus freeing the character in question to cast another spell on the character's next turn. (Thanks to Thanee for the clarification that I meant an "Immediate Action" instead of a 'Free Action." )

 

[rossrebailey]

I'm for it.

 

[Scott DeWar]

gee, you sound more of a lawyer then even I do *ducks as lightning bolt sail accross room*

 

[rossrebailey]

While we're putting this monk attack puzzle together, I just want to make sure I'm right about my chances of the tactic working. The ogre's touch AC is much lower than their normal AC, like 8 to touch and 16 to hit in melee, right? Therefore, Max might succeed in delivering the shocking grasp even if he does no damage, correct?

 

[Scotley]

I'm comfortable with your 2 minute rule and would be happy to use it in our own games. I can picture few situations were 12 rounds wouldn't be enough to use the spell. Any more than that encourages wizards to walk around with a spell pre-cast and waiting for a fight.

As to the last point raised about touch ac vs. regular ac. I've typically ruled that if you want to use a regular attack to do damage then that is the only one that counts. You would not get a chance to get the spell damage if your roll fell between the touch and regular ac in my game. I don't honestly know if that is a strictly correct interpretation of the rules.

 

[Leif]

gee, you sound more of a lawyer then even I do *ducks as lightning bolt sail accross room*

Gosh, I wonder why I sound that way??

Scotley: I don't understand exactly what you mean? If a touch attack is all that is required by the spell, why wouldn't a hit against Touch AC be sufficient?

 

[Scotley]

The issue is getting both a touch attack spell and a monks physical attack both out of it. That's some pretty hefty damage. To make it balanced it should be all or nothing. If the character is going to try and get a full hit that does physical damage as well as the spell then that means making an attack vs. the full AC. If that attack misses then in my opinion there should be a full miss spell and all. If he wants to go for the more sure damage of the touch attack spell then he shouldn't get the chance to do the extra damage from a physical blow. My expectation is that there will be a lot occations where their is a significant difference between the full and touch AC. If he chooses to the take the safe bet and just use the spell then of course he can roll vs. touch AC as per the rules. I believe this is a correct reading of the rules, but I haven't doubled checked the reference.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

That seems to me to be the most 'realistic' way of doing things. Think of it as the difference between trying to tag someone playing 'Freeze Tag' and trying to land a solid punch. They're two very different actions, and being able to touch an opponent doesn't mean you can land a blow. I'm not explaining it very well, but maybe well enough to get my point across . . .

 

[Leif]

The issue is getting both a touch attack spell and a monks physical attack both out of it. That's some pretty hefty damage. To make it balanced it should be all or nothing. If the character is going to try and get a full hit that does physical damage as well as the spell then that means making an attack vs. the full AC. If that attack misses then in my opinion there should be a full miss spell and all. If he wants to go for the more sure damage of the touch attack spell then he shouldn't get the chance to do the extra damage from a physical blow. My expectation is that there will be a lot occations where their is a significant difference between the full and touch AC. If he chooses to the take the safe bet and just use the spell then of course he can roll vs. touch AC as per the rules. I believe this is a correct reading of the rules, but I haven't doubled checked the reference.

Ahh, ok, I gotcha now! The thing is, if the attack scored high enough to beat the opponents touch AC, but not enough to beat his full AC, then that should be good enough to zap him with just the Shocking Grasp, shouldn't it? Obviously, that wouldn't be good enough to get the open-hand monk damage, too. I don't see why you have a problem with a partial success here: seems pretty out-of-character for you, my friend!