White Wolf and author Nancy A. Collins sue Sony over Underworld

[DanMcS]

Well were the vampire clans fighting werewolf tribes in Blade? The point here wasn't to point out the clan thing but to point out that we don't have one single actual clue as to what all these claimed points of copyright infringement are,

Yes we do. The author claimed it was based on her book, which was apparently a romeo and juliet take-off by itself. If that's not frivilous, I don't know what is.

 

[Umbran]

If that's not frivilous, I don't know what is.

Be careful what you say.

I think jdavis' point is very simple. We have only a very general description of what's going on. When copyright and IP are concerned, the devil is in the details. We are not privy to those details.

This is a case where the Golden Rule applies, folks. Remember that "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" thing? If you'd like other folks to make up their minds about you and what you do based upon a short press release, by all means condemn either side right now. If you ever want to be given a fair shake, based upon the facts, wait and see.

 

[reapersaurus]

damn well said, Umbran.

I am flabbergasted that on these boards, of all places (where usually IP of gamers is held to a ridiculously high principle), there are a myriad of people basically telling WW that there's no way Underworld could be a copy of their work, and that How Dare They defend their creative efforts?

Also, unless you have SOME familiarity with WW and the World of Dakness, than I firmly am of the opinion that you should shut your trap about things you know absolutely bupkiss about.

As jdavis reasonably said, why don't you wait until the movie comes out (get some education about WoD) and then decide for yourself how blatant the lifting of ideas is. And I guarantee you - there are ideas lifted from the WoD in Underworld - it permeates the trailer. It's just a matter of what degree Underworld copied WW.
So for anyone to say WW shouldn't defend themselves, when there's warning signs all around that a crime happened... well, to be blunt, you're in the wrong to say that, and it's none of your business, AND you're not in the position to come to that conclusion yet (unless you've got a bootlegged copy of the movie already).

I swear, I haven't seen so much knee-jerk, uncalled-for pre-judging since before A Knight's Tale came out, if anyone remembers how many board members made themselves look stupid for passing false judgment on something they hadn't seen.

 

[Staffan]

I don't think you can use the TSR suit as an example because of the Gygax connection. WW has a very defined world, if they can show elements from their world (which many have been copy righted) then Sony may find itself paying.

I didn't mean that the suit was necessarily as frivolous as the TSR lawsuit. I'm just saying that just because someone claims points of similarity it doesn't mean that those points are actually covered by copyright law.

 

[Hand of Evil]

I didn't mean that the suit was necessarily as frivolous as the TSR lawsuit. I'm just saying that just because someone claims points of similarity it doesn't mean that those points are actually covered by copyright law.

True.

 

[Ranger REG]

damn well said, Umbran.

I am flabbergasted that on these boards, of all places (where usually IP of gamers is held to a ridiculously high principle), there are a myriad of people basically telling WW that there's no way Underworld could be a copy of their work, and that How Dare They defend their creative efforts?

Well, there is an old saying in the good ole' U.S. of A.:

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

If Sony, the defendant in this lawsuit, truly believes that they did not copy from White Wolf's actual copyrighted works, then they should challenge the accusation made by the plaintiff, White Wolf. In court, it is the plaintiff must prove that defendant did something wrong, not the defendant to prove they did nothing wrong.

The court of public opinions varies, and that includes yours. It is the court of evidence I am most interested in, assuming there will be no settlement beforehand.

 

[reapersaurus]

. It is the court of evidence I am most interested in, assuming there will be no settlement beforehand.

Oh, I guarantee they'll settle.
After seeing the documents linked in the other thread, it's an open and shut case.
There are many plot points that are not at all obvious, or accidental that are direct copies from the WW material. I wonder how many things need to be copied before it becomes an obvious rip-off?

Again, Sony didn't HAVE to OK the production of the script as it was - they could have partnered with WW, and probably gotten some good press and publicity and more customers out of it.

But they didn't (I'm guessing). They actually put that story out there, and expect people not to connect the dots?

 

[Mouseferatu]

They actually put that story out there, and expect people not to connect the dots?

To be fair, I don't think Sony, as a corporation, expected anything. I'd be willing to bet money that, until the papers were filed, most of the execs at Sony had never heard of White Wolf. Much as we might like to think otherwise, the RPG industry barely registers as a blip on the radar to most entertainment folks.

If there was some plagiarism--and I think it's likely, but not certain, that there was--the guilty party would be a screenwriter or three, not the execs. The worst they're guilty of is, I think, ignorance.

It doesn't change the fact that, as captains of the ship, they're legally responsible for the actions of their crew, and if WW wins (or Sony decides to settle), it's the execs who will be held accountable. Nevertheless, I really don't think there was any ill intent on the part of most of the execs. (And it's rare for me to say that, given my opinion of large corporations in general.) I think they just didn't realize what it was they had.

 

[jdavis]

Yes we do. The author claimed it was based on her book, which was apparently a romeo and juliet take-off by itself. If that's not frivilous, I don't know what is.

Haven't read the book so I can't say but if it was a Romeo and Juliet take off where vampires fall in love with werewolves then that does make it a lot more unique. Of course once again we really don't know what part of the story was used, maybe it's a unique twist the plot of the book had or maybe it was character backgrounds, give me a actual fact as to what exactly was called into question from the movie and the corresponding part of the book they claim was plagerized and then I will be more than happy to scream frivolous from every rooftop if it is, but we have so little information to go on here that it just makes all this crazy kneejerk reaction silly. I am not making any judgement one way or another I'm just pointing out it is way to early for the general public to chime in when Sony hasn't even made a darn statement yet. Do you know more about this than Sony does? For all we know they could be embarassed that they let something like this slide by them and will issue a formal apology (yes I doubt that too). Look copyright infringement in movies happens all the time, this isn't that outrageous or that uncommon of a thing, maybe we should at least wait till we have seen more of the movie than a 30 second commercial before we pass judgement here.

One thing that sort of does bother me is the complete lack of support for a gaming company here on the gaming messageboard. I mean people are really attacking White Wolf here and I just figured that gamers would be more inclined to root for the game company, guess you learn something new everyday.

 

[Corinth]

Read the document, folks. The movie is an outright ripoff of the book.