White Wolfs pay to play deal...

[Master of the Game]

Interestingly enough, Hasbro just recently lost a suit trying to protect its Trademarks and Copyrights with the game Monopoly when another company (RADGames) produced its own material for the product.

The court said that it "added a new, original creation to the market which is designed for use'' ... "but is distinctive in its own right."

Pretty much fits the definition of an RPG, and might be a reasonable precedent. After all, the adventures designed by DMs are original creations that are distinctive in their own right.

 

[S'mon]

The Allen case - playing a game is not "performance", games supplements are not "derivative works" - http://laws.lp.findlaw.com/9th/9456593.html

 

[S'mon]

White Wolf have just withdrawn the policy:

Withdrawal of Proposed Pay-for-Play Policy

All-

First of all, let me thank everyone who has posted and emailed on this topic, both here and in a variety of other forums. Obviously, the reaction to our pay-for-play policy has been vocal and largely critical, but believe it or not, I'm happy about that. Getting feedback and comments from our fans, customers and fellow-gamers is very important to me, and in many ways negative comments are the most useful. It's also heartening to see and hear from people who obviously care very deeply about their hobby. My apologies to those I haven't had the chance to respond to personally.

Clearly, I have failed to communicate our intentions and goals with this policy -- both in discussions online and off, and in the wording of the policy itself. White Wolf has no interest in closing down, regulating or otherwise stifling the countless small, ad hoc and home-run games that have always been the heart's blood of the gaming hobby (tabletop and live-action both). The so-called "pizza scenario" is the last thing we want to have any say on.

We are interested in building a larger community of World of Darkness players and in supporting the various Storytellers and organizers who are putting on great events. We envision a time when all World of Darkness players have easy access to a panoply of organized games, when they can freely and easily communicate, when they can get neat benefits from us and from their fellow fans, and if they choose to organize games of their own, they have plenty of tools to make them successful. Likewise, we are interested in making sure that when a World of Darkness fan has to shell out her hard-earned money to play a game, she can be reasonably sure that this game lives up to the standards she has come to expect.

Based on all your feedback, it's obvious that the policy as currently worded is not going to accomplish these goals. So, we are pulling it off the table as a blanket policy. I realize that the proverbial genie can't be shoved back in the bottle, but the guidelines I handed to a few people at ORIGINS and posted here last week clearly need to be reworked and rethought, so please consider them withdrawn.

I expect to chat with some of the major LARP organizations running World of Darkness games in the coming weeks in order to hammer out license terms that address their needs and ours, and don't penalize the player community that has made the World of Darkness what it is (and that pays my salary).

Sincerely,

--
Philippe R. Boulle
Marketing Director
White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
1554 Litton Drive
Stone Mountain, GA 30083
404-292-1819 x203 (vox); 678-382-3882 (fax)

 

[delericho]

White Wolf have just withdrawn the policy:

Very wise.

As a wild suggestion to White Wolf: why not introduce a voluntary licensing scheme, whereby LARP groups can register themselves, and pay for the priviledge, but in return get to label their games as "officially sanctioned events". White Wolf can further support them by providing prizes and advertising as they desire, and also have a far stronger justification when they find they have to yank someone's license over "quality concerns".

Basically, use the carrot and the stick together, rather than just using the stick inexpertly, and pretending it's the carrot.

 

[wingsandsword]

Do you have a link for the withdrawal of the policy?

Edit: Found it myself: http://forums.white-wolf.com/viewtopic.php?t=20161

 

[mcrow]

I kind of expected this to happen. They really just want to keep people from making money off of their IP without their permission. I don't have a problem with that. They just need to get it worded right so the everyday RPs and LARPers aren't shut down by it.

 

[spectre72]

After reading some of the snarky comments on the WW message boards from their employees I can personally say that they have accomplished one thing with all of this.

I will never buy any of their products again.

Rude employees combined with what was in my opinion a "cash grab" just doesn't make me want to even look at another of their products.

And I have to give those people who have legal knowledge a hand for standing up to WW after all of the rude comments that were made by their employees.

Overall one of the dumbest ideas ever that will plague their public opinion for quite some time due to the way it was presented and defended even when people showed the flaws in their logic.

Maybe next time they should have someone who can handle criticism monitoring the message board thread about such a controvercial topic.

This way the discussion won't turn into a name calling contest (on the WW boards, not here )

 

[S'mon]

And I have to give those people who have legal knowledge a hand for standing up to WW after all of the rude comments that were made by their employees.

Cheers

I didn't personally suffer at the hands of WW employees (that I know of), but some of their self-appointed advocates were pretty rabid. I hope some good comes out of this.

-S'mon/SimonTMN/Dr Simon Newman

 

[mcrow]

After reading some of the snarky comments on the WW message boards from their employees I can personally say that they have accomplished one thing with all of this.

I will never buy any of their products again.

Rude employees combined with what was in my opinion a "cash grab" just doesn't make me want to even look at another of their products.

And I have to give those people who have legal knowledge a hand for standing up to WW after all of the rude comments that were made by their employees.

Overall one of the dumbest ideas ever that will plague their public opinion for quite some time due to the way it was presented and defended even when people showed the flaws in their logic.

Maybe next time they should have someone who can handle criticism monitoring the message board thread about such a controvercial topic.

This way the discussion won't turn into a name calling contest (on the WW boards, not here )

yeah, I posted my opinion on the employee over on RPG.net:

The bottomline is that we (all of us on RPG.net) are either customers. My job has a lot of custmer interaction and sometimes people get upset with me and insult me for no apparent reason. It's your job when dealing with customers (whether they are civil or not) to act professional. A certain "rep" from WW insulted a bunch of the games biggest fans. Not good customer service. In Any job I have ever had I would have been canned as soon as my boss caught wind of it. Must be nice to work in an industry where it is OK to crap on your custmers and still have a job.