who all is immune to flanking?

[Scion]

I remember reading something awhile back about which creatures are immune to flanking and I thought something about vermin and/or mindless was on there. I cannot find anything about it, but the group I am playing with has been playing that they are immune to flanking for quite some time now.

However, I can find no referene to it.

I know that elementals and oozes are immune, who else is immune? Are vermin and/or mindless immune?

 

[Orichin]

Swarms are immune to flanking; most anything with a hive mind is virtually immune to flanking, so long as they are in a group; anything with all-around vision, like a beholder usually are; Rogues, Barbarians, and various prestige classes that get the Uncanny Dodge ability gain limited flanking immunity; and last but not least, anything without a clearly defined front or back I believe is immune to flanking (gelatinous cubes, oozes/jellies, elementals, stuff like that).

The Swarm of Rats/locusts/centipedes/other vermin may be what crossed your wires thinking vermin were immune to flanking. To my knowledge, run-of-the-mill vermin and their larger more dangerous relatives have no special immunity to flanking, except perhaps on a case-to-case basis.

Mindless generally implies undead or constructs, both of which are immune to sneak attacks, but perfectly vulnerable to flanking maneuvers.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Lumis, from Monster Manual III. Here's why.

 

[Scion]

Because he has really white/blueish skin? Lots of undead have that and are not immune to flanking

 

[Hypersmurf]

most anything with a hive mind is virtually immune to flanking, so long as they are in a group;

Although given the way flanking is defined, hive mind is almost impossible to benefit from...

-Hyp.

 

[Wolf72]

not complete immunity, but Linked Minds from MotP (same name in MM3?), makes it difficult to flank creatures with linked minds ... unless you manage flank all of them.

 

[Orichin]

right, I was under the impression that hive minds worked like what wolf was getting at, can't flank one unless you flank them all, so long as one is 'unflanked', any he can see and communicate with become 'unflanked'

 

[Hypersmurf]

I got it backwards, sorry. The definition of flanking means that it's effectively impossible (not difficult, but impossible) to flank formians (for example) as soon as there is more than one in a group.

The Hive Mind states that no formian in a group is flanked unless they all are.

But flanking is defined: you are flanking when you are making a melee attack and an ally opposite threatens the opponent.

So at any time during the round when I am not making a melee attack, I am not flanking that opponent.

If there are two formians, and we have them both surrounded, they're still not flanked, since only one character acts at a time, and therefore only one character can be making a melee attack at a time, and therefore only one character can be creating a flanking situation at a time, and therefore only one formian can ever be flanked at a time, which means that we can never be flanking all the formians in the group at a time.

-Hyp.

 

[Orichin]

kina...yeah..sure

 

[Vigwyn the Unruly]

Hyp.,

With all due respect, I think you're wrong about the flanking thing. You don't have to be attacking to be flanking, you only have to be attacking to get the flanking bonus. Here is a quote from the SRD:

When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters' centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent's space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.​

So, the opponent can be flanked even if neither of the flankers is attacking; they only have to threaten.