Who are Howard and Leiber?

[Voadam]

I did a search in my county library system's database for conan in the title field. A lot of sir Arthur Conan Doyle commentary came up and one Conan novel by Jordan.

Not one R.E. Howard conan tale. I was depressed.

It did have one Lovecraft set on audio though that was great to hear (Dunnswich Horror and Rats in the Walls).

 

[I'm A Banana]

"Eh? Wuzzat? Lit-richer? Takin' a stick and writin' stuff in the dirt and readin' it back? Weeee-eeell, if ya wanna take all the FUN and CREATIVITY outta tellin' a story, you go ahead and write it down, static and inflexible. Ye young whippersnappers with yer spiked armor and your anime and your tatoos and you rock and roll pikachus...oh, lookit us, we're appealin' to the kiddies 'cuz we've got books! Back in my day, we had our mem'ries and our mouths and we were dern happy! We'd never tell the same story twice! The world's a-changin', ye can't put it in a book and pretend it's the same!"

 

[Sundragon2012]

My vision as a DM of fantasy role playing stories is influenced primarily by:

Robert E. Howard
Moorcock
George R.R. Martin
Marion Zimmer Bradley (Mists of Avalon)
Weis and Hickman (Dragonlance)
Bernard Cornwell (The Warlord Chronicles)
Tolkien

One undeniable fact is that what one reads is certainly reflected in one's DMing style, especially if one does a deep story/role playing campaign.


Chris

 

[Sundragon2012]

The world keeps spinnin'....

If D&D wants to remain relevant in this brave new world, it must embrace the new fantasy steroetypes, cribbed from the likes of Harry Potter and Pokemon and MMORPGs! Fie on the old guard! Fie on them! They merely stagnate what could be a vivacious and creative process! Conan is a crutch for the unimaginative!

....now THAT's how you stir up trouble!

(tongue firmly in cheek, here, bubs)

Might as well toss in Full Metal Alchemist, the Power Rangers, and the Fairy Odd Parents hey there is magic in those too.


Chris

 

[MavrickWeirdo]

....now THAT's how you stir up trouble!

(tongue firmly in cheek, here, bubs)

I was holding book 1 of "Fafhrd and Gray Mouser" in my hand earlier today.

Only 86 cents at Goodwill.

Not to mention Doc Savage #18 "The Sargasso Ogre" that I got for free at a book swap at work.

(Actually happened)

 

[Angerland]

I can't beleive no one has mentioned C.S. Lewis and the Chronicles of Narnia. Kamikaze, I was all set to explode or melt down then I saw you were kidding, whew! I agree that there are some newish writers who are very talented, but I still think, personally, that Leiber and Howard, Tolkien, Lewis, Moorcock, Eddings, Brooks, hell even Piers Anthony (Xanth Series), are the authors that I can honestly saw I loved every book of theirs that I ever read.

I am glad that there are new fantasy authors to keep the genre fresh.

 

[Turjan]

I can't beleive no one has mentioned C.S. Lewis and the Chronicles of Narnia.

That's probably because C.S. Lewis and the 'Chronicles' are still in print in several different styles, they are bought, and they are read. In this sense, they are still part of today's "fantasy canon" . Other authors are not. Like Howard or Leiber.

How often did you see some criticism of "Vancian magic", culminating in the sentence "I really like to know why D&D chose such a stupid system like Vancian magic, a system that has never been used in any fantasy literature whatsoever!". Well, it's obvious that even the name isn't recognized anymore as a fantasy author, which is even more of a problem than when the books are not read anymore. I made a check: My local Borders doesn't carry any Vance books, although I found 2 titles in the Borders in Santa Barbara.

Maybe it's good then to answer Merric's call and make a shift in D&D settings and even accompanied mechanics. I cannot say that I'm such a big fan of most of today's fantasy (I hardly read any), but maybe the authors of the game versions of that fantasy manage to surprise me. If Eberron was already a step into this direction, that was a failure (in a peronal sense ). Maybe, I need another example of how this would look like.

 

[MerricB]

The funny thing about Eberron is that, in fact, it is a step *back*, to Edgar Rice Burroughs crossed with Raymond Chandler. (Pulp/Noir). At least, some of the marketing was meant to be that way - I've seen little evidence of it so far.

However, the background magic of the world actually shares more in common with the wizard world of Harry Potter. (There are also comparisons with Anne Bishop's "Black Jewels" trilogy - which I recommend most highly).

We talk about "Vancian" magic, but it really isn't any more - D&D has used it far more than Vance ever did. It isn't "Vancian" magic, it is "D&D" magic.

I will note that magic in novels has little relation to magic in games. Magic in novels is plot-based: whatever magic is needed is there. Magic in games is a resource that allows PCs do do interesting things and overcome challenges if they use it properly.

It is a mistake to equate the two and assume that making one the same as the other will be successful.

Cheers!

 

[Aldarc]

My vision of D&D based upon what I have read:

Song of Ice and Fire (Martin)
Elric & Corum (Moorcock)
Middle-Earth (Tolkien)
Thomas Covenant (Donaldson)
Black Company (Cook)
Earthsea (LeGuin)
Conan (Howard)
Wheel of Time (Jordan)
Berserk (Miura)

 

[Akrasia]

.... In this sense, they are still part of today's "fantasy canon" . Other authors are not. Like Howard or Leiber.
....

Of course, Howard's original stories have recently been republished by Ballantine (so far: The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian, Soloman Kane, The Bloody Crown of Conan, andBran Mak Morn: The Last king -- with more to come!).

Apparently they've been selling extremely well in North America. (I'm not sure if they're available in the U.K. and Ireland yet.)

Howard's making a comeback!