Who else hates seeing enemies Raised / Resurrected / Wished Back?

[Elf Witch]

I don't have a problem with it if the PCs can do it so can the NPCs. I don't think it should be overdone but it can be handled very dramatically.

I have to say what bothers me is comments like I don't like X so I wish it was not in the rules. If you don't like something take it out of your game.

I know a lot of players like having the ability to come back from the dead because they don't want to keep making characters.

 

[Tallifer]

Returning enemies, especially with the help of new evil allies, is the point of many epic tales. Think Napoleon's return from Elba, Bolingbroke's return from France, Charles II's return from Holland, Sauron's return after the Fall of Numenor.

 

[Starfox]

I love the idea of recurring villains - either because they escaped to come back another day or because of some trickery like a resurrection spell or a "no-one could have survived that" mysterious death. But I have a lot of problems getting my players to like the idea, so I mostly stopped using it.

As a player I love a recurring villain - not only is it satisfying from a story perspective, it is also tactically advantageous as we already know some of the tricks this guy has up hi sleeve.

I can't really understand why people dislike the idea so much.

 

[trancejeremy]

Being a HPL fan, I would say I like it - worked well in The Case of Charles Dexter Ward

And, if players don't like it, they could always do something with the body (yeah, wouldn't stop wish, but if the PCs have an enemy that can cast wishes they probably already have a lot of trouble)

 

[marelion]

I am not a fan of raising BBEGs. First, it has the potential to take the triumph away from the players for overcoming such a significant threat. In the campaign i am currently in (4E) we had the very same BBEG appear 3 times until last session my character decapitated him with his fullblade. He was strangely mutated(without anyone of us being able to identify the source of the mutation, of course) so the GM will claim he has every right to use some deus ex machina to bring him back AGAIN. It is slowly starting to get annoying, especially if he conveniantly levels at the same pace as the heroes all the time. This BBEG really kills off all immersion for me.

Ands more importantly: Don`t BBEGs normaly have a large number of lackeyes? Why would not anybody try to take the position of their former master and rebuild the structures of the cult/sectet organisation the BBEG was the head of? If your BBEG is the cunning type(like the recurring villain theme suggests) he will assemble competent people to serve him. Of course the simpleton of a lackeye can be used as a source of comic relief but no true villain should be on his own.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Dykstrav]

I tend to view enemy resurrections as a chance to develop an adventure.

How would an evil army react to their warlord's death? They'd probably side with the PCs to keep him from being resurrected--after all, the new evil warlord that seized command upon his death would have to fight him for command of the army. If he's in a cozy spot to hold the territories they've already taken, he has to have some incentive to want to become a subordinate again. There's enough political maneuvering there to base an adventurer on. Maybe the new warlord reveals that the old guy with get raised from the dead at Evil Temple, LLC (who sponsors the evil army) on the night of the dark moon and tells them about the secret underground tunnels to get into the temple and stop the resurrection. They're both in a prime spot to benefit from the PCs stopping it, but the new evil warlord can't attack the temple himself for appearance's sake--they're supposed to be his sponsors, after all, but he certainly doesn't want to lose his new office. If the PCs can stop the resurrection, new guy promises a cease-fire and allow diplomacy to resume. That's an adventure with consequences for failure if I ever heard one, especially since the PCs have to work out their priorities and decide who they can trust.

Some players do indeed feel that raise dead and similar magic are PC-only resources. I've seen many players that feel like raise dead should be available at 1st level, and friendly NPC clerics with gobs of gold and diamonds should gladly cast it for any schmuck adventurer that had smart-ass comments for an orc chieftan or decided they should free-hand climb a 100-ft cliff without taking 10 on their Climb checks. I call shenanigans on that. In my opinion, raise dead isn't insulation from the consequences of stupidity. I view it at sort of like insurance--if you've prepared for the possibility of a future tragedy, it becomes manageable instead of disastrous. At higher levels, it's expected because the threats the PCs face can kill you instantly.

I've also seen players object to NPCs using cure spells, potions, and other items. (Of course, they also balk when I offer to remove cure spells from the campaign if they don't like them.) Same sort of thing in my opinion. I don't understand the idea that PCs should get things that NPCs can't have.

 

[Janx]

As a player, I love it when a previously defeated NPC offers his xp up to me again. If he brings more loot for me as well, all the better. I am sure that the characters generally feel less good about it.

Yup.

As an NPC is nothing more than a collection of gear and XP to be gathered at the end of the fight, does it really matter that the last guy you killed was named Bob? Let alone, that you killed a Bob 3 sessions ago.

Same NPC from before or new, it doesn't matter. Kill him and take his stuff.

 

[billd91]

I voted that I didn't hate it. It's far too contextual an issue to say that I hate or don't hate it, ultimately. It can be used way too much, but in the service of creating a recurring villain or two, not a problem.

 

[Aeolius]

c'mon... Have you never seen Friday the 13th or Halloween? Have you never read a Marvel comic book? Bad guys NEVER stay dead for long.

I admit to a personal bias, however. This was the inspiration for my current campaign:

I recycled antagonists from my last game, to make the BBEG in my new game. The blackwater hag is an unliving amalgamation of a sea hag blood magus, a salt hag, and the deathlock or a night hag, reanimated by blackwater. The sea hag, Tempest, is the granddaughter of the night hag Xaetra, while the salt hag was her daughter.

I have also kept the same protagonist NPC, my "Mary Sue", in all of my online games since 1995. Xaetra has died a few times (she was once human) and spent a stretch as a spirit hag trapped in the region of dreams. Two sessions ago, she was restored to life and experienced apotheosis; ascending as an avatar of the hag goddess Cegilune, to battle the the avatar of Olhydra, a trio of hags known as the Blue Coven.

 

[beverson]

As a player, I would definitely hate it if it happened repeatedly. As a GM, I would never overdo it. While it's great at times to have a villain thought long dead make another appearance, I feel that it's got to be under the right circumstances. Plus, in the world of villainy, is there a really good reason for someone to want to bring the BBEG back? Did he/she make a contingency plan for it? Are their minions devoted enough to follow through on those plans? And is there another villain who would rather not see them brought back?

So yes, under certain circumstances I'd do it, but rarely and for great effect.