who else loves the C&C...?

[Treebore]

But you could say the same thing about tons of things. "We're spoiled by modern cars, with air conditioners, radios, seat belts, and headlights. A basic black car with 4 wheels, and engine, and somewhere to sit is all I need." That's all fine and dandy if it works for you, but I perfer more options.

To me, C&C isn't an inexpensive car with missing luxury features like GPS and heated leather seats. It's missing stuff I consider more important; like air conditioning. Things that impare my enjoyment.

Like has been said, by me even, C&C isn't for everyone. Its for people who like to put in their own AC because they will know it works perfectly. If it doesn't they know how to find out what is wrong and fix it.

Its not for people who want their AC factory installed.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Its not for people who want their AC factory installed.

That's it exactly.

C&C (and OSRIC!) are Linuxes to 3e's Vista.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Me. It's the game that brought me back to actual play after years of looking for a fantasy system that "felt right" for me (AD&D was too inconsistent, D&D 3x was too bloated, etc). C&C gave me the fast and loose feel of AD&D with the cohesion of D&D 3x.

That’s exactly what I like about the system. It seems to have the best of all editions. It is a consistent mechanic. What’s nice about it too is that you can port some D&D things in due to the consistency with little to no trouble at all.

With me, I’ve played AD&D for years. Started in the 2e days, but I used plenty of 1e stuff too. I got involved with 3e and learned the system. There were a lot of things I liked, but then again, it just seemed a bit much in some ways. C&C provides a nice balance between the two.

That said, all of diaglo's posts eventually pursuaded me to check out The One True Game and, as a result, I ended up parting ways with most of my C&C material this Winter (as well as my AD&D 1e books). Now there is no turning back. . .

I don’t get why people part ways with old game books they don’t use any more. Even if you’re not using the same edition, the material can be useful down the road in some fashion.

But you could say the same thing about tons of things. "We're spoiled by modern cars, with air conditioners, radios, seat belts, and headlights. A basic black car with 4 wheels, and engine, and somewhere to sit is all I need." That's all fine and dandy if it works for you, but I perfer more options.

To me, C&C isn't an inexpensive car with missing luxury features like GPS and heated leather seats. It's missing stuff I consider more important; like air conditioning. Things that impare my enjoyment.

I see where you’re coming from, but one could also say that C&C is a good solid car while other systems have so many options that you wouldn’t know how to properly drive it.

What it boils down to is point of view. Each of us has different tastes in gaming. Some like a basic, solid system and others like a modular system with tons of options. No single way is right or wrong. They’re just different.

 

[MaxKaladin]

IT only lacks customization options because it doesn't tell you how to customize. Using a little bit of system buidling skills you can add whatever customizations you want from any other D&D system.

Like I still have a feat type of mechanic and I use 3.5 skills as a guideline.

C&C is all about customizing the game how you want it to be customized, not how a bunch of game designers tell you to do it.

So you play C&C, find out what doesn't do what you want, then steal mechanics from other games based off the d20 to make it do exactly what you want.

That's fine if you're the DM. You can't do that if you're the player. I didn't like it as a player because I didn't have any way to customize my PC.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Don't worry guys, I intend to buy them all.

SILENCE!

Don't forget about my Necromancer collaboration with Lance Hawvermale and the stuff I'm working on for Joe Browning. (Honest, Joe, I'll have it to you soon!)

 

[Korgoth]

That's fine if you're the DM. You can't do that if you're the player. I didn't like it as a player because I didn't have any way to customize my PC.

Here's an example I like to use from Classic D&D... it as well to C&C:

Assume all players have Level 1 Fighters with no ability bonuses and 8 HP.

Player 1: My Fighter is a woodlands tracker who explores the vastness of the northern wastes.
Player 2: My Fighter is a grizzled mercenary out for fame and fortune.
Player 3: My Fighter is an aristocrat from Politeia and thus an accomplished horseman.
Player 4: My Fighter is a sailor and privateer with strong personal loyalties.

All 4 of these statistically identical characters are different. Not only that, but since background can be a determiner of your skill set, each one can do different things: #1 can track and knows the wild lands, #2 is streetwise and is familiar with military matters and contractual negotiations, #3 knows horsebackriding and etiquette and has some society connections, #4 can man a ship and climb rigging and interact with salts in seedy dockside taverns. Very different!

All that, and no feats or skills required.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Yes, Korgoth, but not every player enjoys needling his DM to figure out a set of rules - ad hoc or codified - for actually doing the things the character is supposed to be able to do, and not every DM enjoys having to do so.

And if you don't have a mechanism for doing it in the game, it's absolutely bloody meaningless. Might as well distinguish yourself by asserting that you speak pink and breathe leaves.

 

[Korgoth]

And if you don't have a mechanism for doing it in the game, it's absolutely bloody meaningless. Might as well distinguish yourself by asserting that you speak pink and breathe leaves.

EDIT: Let me just say that this doesn't actually follow.

 

[Treebore]

Yes, Korgoth, but not every player enjoys needling his DM to figure out a set of rules - ad hoc or codified - for actually doing the things the character is supposed to be able to do, and not every DM enjoys having to do so.

And if you don't have a mechanism for doing it in the game, it's absolutely bloody meaningless. Might as well distinguish yourself by asserting that you speak pink and breathe leaves.

I'm glad to know I am having so much fun playing a game with meaningless mechanics.


Your right, tastes vary. Some of use operate fine without having everything codified for us. Others like having everything codified. Or almost everything. Just depends on what is often referred to as a comfort zone.

I don't like how codified 3E is. I was being strangled by it on several levels. C&C doesn't make me feel that way, so I am happy with it.

I can't tell from what you have posted as to why you are uncomfortable with C&C being so loose, but thats fine. If your the DM I'll play 3E with you. If you want me to be DM you would have to be willing to play C&C. Maybe with my house rules you would actually like it.

 

[S'mon]

That's fine if you're the DM. You can't do that if you're the player. I didn't like it as a player because I didn't have any way to customize my PC.

I tell my players they can create new PC classes to fit their PC, or I'll do it for them. Takes about as long as regular feat/skill selection in 3e.