Who is mantle of faith for?

[jgsugden]

Smashnak, the Arch-Pillager of the church of the aforementioned god of rapine and slaughter, doesn't think that his Unholy Bastard Sword of Infant Bane is Unholy and, since it was gifted to him by his deity, it is infact a Holy weapon if we go by the actual english definition.

Why would you go to the English definition? We have a game term definition that doesn't use the common language defintiion.

The alignment system in D&D is often misunderstood. Evil is not real world evil. It is melodrama evil. It is fake evil. It is unrealistic evil. It is evil for the sake of doing evil. This is how it is described under the alignment section.

"Ha, ha! I serve an evil God! Ha, ha! I sacrifice babies to her Unholy Alter! Ha, ha! I drink blood from a cup! Ha, ha! I tell women on the street that they look fat, even when they're not! Ha, ha!"

Why use real world defintions of morality and spirituality when they are being applied to such an unrealistic system as alignment?

Using unholy to relate to all evil things is much simpler. Any time a good PC sees something unholy, he knows that it is bad. It removes the middle ground and makes morality a discussion of black and white. If you want to add shades of color in the middle, feel free, but that is not the way the game is designed.

 

[Ackem]

Why would you go to the English definition? We have a game term definition that doesn't use the common language defintiion.

Because the real definition has a completely contrary meaning to the one used by the game. There's a reason we don't define Up as Down and Down as Up ingame.

Using unholy to relate to all evil things is much simpler. Any time a good PC sees something unholy, he knows that it is bad. It removes the middle ground and makes morality a discussion of black and white. If you want to add shades of color in the middle, feel free, but that is not the way the game is designed.

It has nothing to do with shades of gray. It has to do with completely misusing a word. Holy/Unholy doesn't make D&D anymore black and white in morality then using equivalent words that would actually make sense.

 

[Scion]

Dont know.. what do people in the real world who worship the devil (or the old evil gods) say about them? Do they say that they are good and holy? or do they say that he is evil and unholy? Do both sides of the equation cast protection from good? If you know your diety is one evil guy who likes to burn people alive just to hear them scream is he misguided? good? you can say holy, but isnt he really unholy? lol.. crazy definitions of course, but for simplicities sake everything is named in a way to show alignment, that way you dont have things like: Holy(good) and Holy(evil)

Somewhere you have to draw the line for simplicity.

 

[hong]

No, reread the comment, 'subjected yourself to the torments of the damned'.

Ah yes, reading threads that bring up topics that were settled six months ago. Indeed, that is the torment of the damned.

DR /evil is effectively impenetrable by the vast majority of villainous creatures that exist in most D&D worlds. Orc barbarian? Can't do it. Vampire? Can't do it. Red dragon? Can't do it. The only things that can penetrate it are fiends, which usually show up only sparingly at the mid-levels, and not at all at the low levels.

The exception might be if you play a campaign that's heavy on the planar hopping. But if you're playing a planar campaign, you have more problems than alignment-based DR to contend with; 3E's prime material bias is pervasive.

That is useing your powers to make yourself resistant/immune to their attacks.

So they have lots of hit points.

Much like the survivor prestige class.

Which is stupid.

 

[Scion]

Which is stupid.

Ah yes, hong. Nice of you to show up and spout a bunch of useless drivil. Good show.

Obviously no one uses weapons that might be evily aligned, especially not evil people. No one can cast align weapon or have something that does. No one uses the oil you spread on weapons to give them an alignment type for a period of time. No one seeks out templates to increase their power, especially not evil people... Especially HIGH LEVEL evil people.. yes..

So sorry to have forgotten that none of those things are done, nor any of the other options out there.

Whether or not you consider it 'settled' is up to you. However, every now and then things have to be brought up to see if anyone has a fix for mechanics that need help. Apparently you do not.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The alignment system in D&D is often misunderstood. Evil is not real world evil. It is melodrama evil. It is fake evil. It is unrealistic evil. It is evil for the sake of doing evil. This is how it is described under the alignment section.

"Ha, ha! I serve an evil God! Ha, ha! I sacrifice babies to her Unholy Alter! Ha, ha! I drink blood from a cup! Ha, ha! I tell women on the street that they look fat, even when they're not! Ha, ha!"

That's a blanket generalisation, of course...

Not everyone who has an evil alignment would cross the street just to kick a puppy. Not all of them have Purple Pieman moustaches. Or Dick Dastardly moustaches. Or even Dishonest John moustaches (Nya-ha-ha!).

Evil for the sake of doing evil falls under "evil" in the alignment system... but it's not exclusively so.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

Because the real definition has a completely contrary meaning to the one used by the game.

The real definition is completely consistent with the D&D definition. "Holy" has positive connotations of rightness, correctness or rectitude, while "unholy" is the opposite. Within the gaming context of D&D, where PCs are assumed to be good or neutral aligned while monsters are evil aligned, that's basically what you want.

There's a reason we don't define Up as Down and Down as Up ingame.

Noone is defining up as down or vice-versa, except you. "Unholy" does not have to mean the absence of holy.

 

[hong]

Ah yes, hong. Nice of you to show up and spout a bunch of useless drivil. Good show.

You'll have to do better than that to get into my sig.

Obviously no one uses weapons that might be evily aligned, especially not evil people.

1) The vast majority of people in the vast majority of D&D worlds do not have evil weapons, not even evil people. Your point is what, sweetcheeks?

2) If said people actually do have an evil weapon, then clearly they too have done their homework for bypassing DR, just as you assume you've done your homework to get that DR in the first place. Again, your point is what, sweetcheeks?

No one can cast align weapon or have something that does.

See above.

No one uses the oil you spread on weapons to give them an alignment type for a period of time.

I don't know what oil you're spreading and where, but if you're lubing up, I'm game!

No one seeks out templates to increase their power, especially not evil people... Especially HIGH LEVEL evil people.. yes..

If they are high-level evil people, then what is your problem with them having suitably high-level abilities, sweetcheeks?

So sorry to have forgotten that none of those things are done, nor any of the other options out there.

So alignment-based DR isn't a foolproof way of avoiding damage. OH DAMN, YOUR CUNNING PLAN IS FOILED. If it wasn't for those darn designers, you'd have gotten clean away!

Whether or not you consider it 'settled' is up to you. However, every now and then things have to be brought up to see if anyone has a fix for mechanics that need help. Apparently you do not.

On the contrary, it appears you, for one, need help.

 

[Scion]

Point is, it is easy for the people to get past it who it is supposed to be used against.

If you had a device that went around and whenever you placed it over a persons head, asked them if they commited murder last night, and it killed them if they did not commit the crime you could keep going until you found the murderer.

Of course in the process you have killed lots of innocent people, or at least innocent of that crime.

Same thing, different name.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Gentlemen...

-Hyp.
(Moderator)