Who needs "Monster Bad Guys"?

[Doc_Klueless]

So I was dreaming up my next campaign world that'll never take off while I was reading my new Thieves' World Campaign Setting from Green Ronin (which is eeeexcellent, by the way) and listening to CNN in the background, when it suddenly dawned on me that I have no need for "Monster Bad Guys" in my champaign. You know, orcs, goblins, etc who serve a dark lord or whatever that terrorize the PC races cities/kingdoms so that they have something to adventure against instead of just dungeon crawling.

I mean, I took a look around and realized that there is NOTHING some outside evil force could do worse to human kind than what humans do to each other.

I don't need Orcs: There are plenty of humans who torture, mutilate and destroy all that is good around them. And the best part (if there is such a thing)? They look just like everybody else so the players can't pull the ol' "all orcs are baaaad. Must kiiiiilll. and loot the bodies afterwards."

Anyone else run humanocentric (or pc-racocentric) worlds?

 

[OpheliaWhispers]

The only games I have ever run were with PC oriented bad-guys. And you are right, PCs can't always tell them apart, which can make it really interesting. I agree with you that humans can be most cruel to each other, so can other PC races, just look at how the Sun elves treat the Moon elves or any other elf for that matter. That is why I keep the monsters to a minimum and the PC's race BBEGs to a maximum.

Keep the paranoia up as high as it can go.

 

[kolikeos]

certinely, humans are the most evil race there ever was, but they don't like to think of themselves that way, why else would we invent orcs and goblins and suchlike if not so we could feel better with ourselves thinking that there are worse things out there.

anyway, while orcs and goblins may sometimes play the canon meat troops, they are rarely taking the role of the big boss in my campaign, that role is usually played by a human character.

 

[MacMathan]

I played in a very cool historically oriented, human only campaign. It started with the Turks attacking Constantinople and eventually went to involvement with the Knights of Malta and the Italian city states.

I found that the actual plots and intrigues of history are as/more interesting than most of the modules out there.

For me it increased the believability factor of the game.

 

[Bobitron]

I generally use humans as the enemies in my games. I love game worlds with well developed conflict between persons, rather than just humans vs. goblinoids all the time. That's one reason I find the Iron Kingdoms setting so great. You can easily run entire campaigns without even having to crack open a MM. I know other settings have similar potential, but the IK makes it so easy to pit the members of humanity against each other.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

I mean, I took a look around and realized that there is NOTHING some outside evil force could do worse to human kind than what humans do to each other.

Oh, sure there is. You just have to be creative.

That's certainly a challenge, making bad guys that are that entirely evil, but it can be done. The Reavers from Serenity were a good example -- "Rape you to death, sew your skin onto their clothes, and eat your flesh. And if you're lucky, theyll do it in that order." Thousands of them, all working together for that specific purpose -- to inflict as much pain on humanity as possible, just for the sake of inflicting pain, not for any measurable benefit to them.

Or, some aberration or fiend using mental domination to cause people to enjoy slowly torturing their loved ones to death; that's something that couldn't be done in our world, but would be (in my opinion) worse than anything that could be done.

Does BoVD has any tips on how to make "worse-than-real-world" evil?

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Oh, sure there is. You just have to be creative.

That kinda goes without saying.

The Reavers from Serenity were a good example -- "Rape you to death, sew your skin onto their clothes, and eat your flesh. And if you're lucky, theyll do it in that order."

I have no problem seeing humans doing this to each other. The Holocaust came darn close, though I don't recall any book saying that they ate people, so you'd have me there.

Thousands of them, all working together for that specific purpose -- to inflict as much pain on humanity as possible, just for the sake of inflicting pain, not for any measurable benefit to them.

Again, except for the "thousands of them" part, you could be describing the quiet guy down the street who tortures, mutilates and consumes the young boys trapped in his basement, if you know what I mean.

Or, some aberration or fiend using mental domination to cause people to enjoy slowly torturing their loved ones to death; that's something that couldn't be done in our world, but would be (in my opinion) worse than anything that could be done.

'course, in a D&D world with the magic at a person's fingertips, the bad dude wouldn't have to be an aberration (in the MM sense) or a fiend to use mental domination. And it could be the dude next to you buying bread at the same bakery you're at whose secretly sizing you up for his own sick enjoyment.

Though I definitely see what you're saying, I think I'm gonna keep the monsters to the bare minimum in my next campaign world and no humanoid monsters at all and see how it turns out.

 

[demiurge1138]

I prefer the opposite approach. Humanoid baddies are people too. Goblins live in cities, orcs have societies (barbarous tribal societies, to be sure) and gnolls are nomadic hunters, etc. etc. They're capable of evil, and many are socially influenced towards it, but it's no different from a human society leaning towards evil.

Of course, I do run Eberron a lot, which encourages shades of gray alignment, and have players who generally consider "kill it because it's a gobbo!" to be in poor taste. An all PHB races game might be interesting and well-run, but I personally prefer a large number of species to fiddle around with when DMing.

Demiurge out.

 

[Nightfall]

Humans that can be very bad yes, but fiends are even worse. Probably why I'm such a lover of fiends. Fiends rule.

 

[Remathilis]

Oh, humans are great for an evil you can relate too; nothing beats a villian with a sympathatic face.

However, evil monsters allow PCs a much clearer view of good and evil. Elves are good, orcs evil. There are bad elves and good orcs, for sure, but like an old western, good and evil are clearly defined (by hat color) and you know whos side your on.

Lots of DMs prefer questionable morality. Thats fine, nothing against that. However, a certain part of me LIKES knowing fiends are bad and can be smacked around without questioning moral relevence. It leads to a quicker paced game when you know who's who.

Besides, humans are evil, but at the end of the day they are still human. They don't suck out your brains, control your mind with but a glance, breathe fire while flying, or poison you with but a touch (without heavily relying on magic, I guess...) so if for nothing else but diversity its nice to use non-humans.

However, an all-human game is quite fun too. My SWd20 (while not TECHNICALLY all human) focused on those type of morality issues quite often.