Who would want to play a non-caster?

[Greg K]

Also, "rules rapist?"

Really?

Hey, I didn't coin the phrase

 

[GreyLord]

Healing is a losing game.

You will very rarely - at least until you get something like Heal - heal for more damage is being dealt. Furthermore, it costs you a standard action to do that healing. It is by all definitions a losing game.

Clerics are best and smashing things with a mace, not healing. Healing is for after the fight - at least, in 3.x.

Your post honestly describes why most people won't want to be a fighter. You say "fighters have freedom to do whatever," I hear "Nobody actually expects the fighter to contribute."

Oh, and at level one, that 1d12+3 axe can kill almost anyone.

I haven't met a party yet that doesn't use the cleric for healing. You don't necessarily heal during combat...but in between or during rests.

Why???

Your two rooms into the dungeon, Cleric (Goerge) is hurt, fighter is hurt, rogue is hurt. You've protected the Mage. You decide that you might want to go out...maybe you should heal a little before you leave.

Oops, the Cleric used his spells buffing himself up...and he only had 3 spells. Hmm, at first level he could probably have restored half the lost hit points.

But now they just have to wing it...what...is that a group of orcs coming down the hall blocking the way out if you choose to go that way?

Bad DM...Bad DM...

Looks like you guys are screwed...

So they try to get out and get a TPK...almost won it...if the fighter or rogue had just had two more hp...instead...everyone died.

I guess George is voted out of the party...who are you guys going to recruit to play the cleric then?

Wendy? You gf...she have any experience playing...no...but that means she won't try to play a cleric as a warrior who doesn't help anyone...well if that makes you guys happier then having George in the party....

She's hot?

Well...I suppose that's acceptable...

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Wand of Vigor, Lesser.

 

[GreyLord]

What are char ops people?

???

I used to do Char Op all the time...but I would NEVER PLAY with such characters typically...at least many of the ones which kind of twists the rules or get a little of everything to make the DM's life a living nightmare...and I would probably not want one using that mindset playing at the table.

Most of the Char Ops do the character stuff for fun, but NOT for play. Just to see how you can tweak it to the point of breaking something, or ridiculousness.

Char Ops is a bad way to go for Roleplaying however, in my opinion. Overall...trying to fit a roleplayng into a build, rather than a build into roleplaying makes for less plot and less game with more Computer game like Diablo experiences...where you go to kill the beasties and level doing Mephisto runs instead of actually caring about what is going on in the world around you.

Basically, as already stated, Character Ops try to optimize a character build, whatever class or classes it is using feats, skills, items, and level dipping for the most effective use of abilities. Many try to actually break (as in, create something ridiculous without actually breaking the rules...as per some would put it...not even keeping the spirit of the rules...just keeping the rules while trying to create some sort of infinite loop of power) the game in a fashion.

The epitome of these types of builds would be things like Pun Pun.

IN MY OPINION of course.

 

[Dandu]

I haven't met a party yet that doesn't use the cleric for healing. You don't necessarily heal during combat...but in between or during rests.

Why???

Your two rooms into the dungeon, Cleric (Goerge) is hurt, fighter is hurt, rogue is hurt. You've protected the Mage. You decide that you might want to go out...maybe you should heal a little before you leave.

Oops, the Cleric used his spells buffing himself up...and he only had 3 spells. Hmm, at first level he could probably have restored half the lost hit points.

But now they just have to wing it...what...is that a group of orcs coming down the hall blocking the way out if you choose to go that way?

Bad DM...Bad DM...

Looks like you guys are screwed...

So they try to get out and get a TPK...almost won it...if the fighter or rogue had just had two more hp...instead...everyone died.

I guess George is voted out of the party...who are you guys going to recruit to play the cleric then?

Wendy? You gf...she have any experience playing...no...but that means she won't try to play a cleric as a warrior who doesn't help anyone...well if that makes you guys happier then having George in the party....

She's hot?

Well...I suppose that's acceptable...

Your opinions are interesting, but they are ultimately statements without numbers backing them up. Would you care to stat out some PCs? I volunteer my abilities at character design to help with this.

 

[TanisFrey]

In every battle in the campaign so far, the enemies avoid me, to target the casters. I mean I hit them, and they ignore me.

So yeah....being a caster isn't always good

If every enemy has INT of 13-15+ ok. If they have a reason to hate spellcaster, like having the mage slayer feats, ok. If there is a leader that is telling them to attack someone, ok. Other wise, some should stand and fight you, especially if they are undead or vermin.

Sounds like you need to talk to the DM outside of the game about this if he does not have these explanations.

Healing is a losing game.

You will very rarely - at least until you get something like Heal - heal for more damage is being dealt. Furthermore, it costs you a standard action to do that healing. It is by all definitions a losing game.

The regular cure spells are useful to keep someone alive. Otherwise waiting for the mass cure are when healing can become useful in the middle of combat.

 

[Alexander123]

In between or during rests a wand of faith healing or wand of lesser vigor would heal much more than any cleric could.

A wand of faith healing heals 9 hp per pop and a wand of the spell costs 750 gp. 1 wand heals a total of 450 hp.

A wand of lesser vigor heals 11 hp per pop and a wand of the spell costs 750 gp. 1 wand heals a total of 550 hp.

Not to mention the other ways found in the link to the guide I posted above.

 

[Dandu]

In combat, the amount you heal will rarely be greater than the amount of damage your friend is receiving. This is a problem.

The fish rots from the head, as they say. So my thinking is, why not cut off the head? This way they will take less damage overall for you to heal.

 

[Andras]

The group I'm in rotates character roles when we switch up campaigns. I've had just as much fun playing the barbarian, the monk, and now the rogue/fighter as I have had playing the wizard, the warmage, and cleric.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

In between or during rests a wand of faith healing or wand of lesser vigor would heal much more than any cleric could.

Depends on his feat choice & situation.

The original version of Sacred Healing (I think that's what the feat is called- I'm not near my PC's sheet or my books at the moment)- which our group considers distinct from the completely different version in PHB2- gives the equivalent of Fast Healing to all within a 30' radius at the cost of burning a Turn Undead. That is a LOT of potential targets, and when you cram some NPCs in with the party, your Cleric can make like a messiah with the mass healing.

My current Cleric/Sorcerer/Geomancer/M-T has that feat + Extra Turning (among others). His Sacred Healing heals about 15pts per PC per Turn burned. In our party on a typical night when most of the group has shown up, that translates into 105HP of healing with one Turn. And if we've done something like rescue a bunch of enslaved NPCs- as we did in one of the first adventures with this PC- that one use of the feat healed over 400HP worth of injuries.

Added bonus: if cast right before entering combat, the fast healing that is granted will also act to instantly stabilize anyone who is dropped (but not killed).