Why are paladins so dumb?

[Rashak Mani]

HAHA when you put "Why are Paladins so Dumb" I thought you meant the Paladins gaming or actions not his stats... most of them arent to bright on the wisdom criteria as well...

In my view most paladins are played kind of stupidly... overanxious to kill evil independent of the costs or rationality... overenthusiastic about executing evil creatures... overzealous of making everyone around conform to their beleifs... so rping wise they tend to act stupid too... the stats just make it official I suppose.

 

[Artoomis]

Actually, my Paladin has an int of 12 and a dex of 10. Why? Because of skill points.

As a Paladin, certain skills are almost required. to wit:

Knowledge, Religion
Heal
Ride
Dilpomacy

And that does not include listen, spot or search, useful skills for ALL characters.

This makes Int not a "dump stat" for anyone.

Let's look again at all the stats::

Str: Required to gelp hit things, damamge them, and carrying stuff. Can be made up for with magic items, and leveling-up bonuses will help, too.

Dex: Required for Touch Attack defense and Reflex Saves. Magic items can help out a lot. Leveling-up bonuses can help.

Con. Needed for Hit Points and Fort Save. Leveling-up bonuses can help.

Int: Skill Points, baby. Cannot be made up for with magic items OR leveling-up bonuses very well (no retroactive gaining of skill points)

Wis: Needed for Paladin's spells and Will saves. Leveling-up bonuses can help.

Cha: Needed for Turning and Smiting. Leveling-up bonuses can help.

A paladin has NO "dump stat," and Int needs to be as high as you want it when you create the character since skill points are not gained retrocatively for Int increases. This is true for all characters, not just paladins.

For my character, I chose Dex as my lowest score, with the intention of raising it later with magic items.

The only viable "dump stats" for most characters are Str and Cha - Str if you can live with it, and Cha for all but characters that depend on it.

 

[Archer]

I had a dumb paladin. He has a int of 7 for exactly the reasons you describe. You already get so few skills what is one less? Once you go to 9 int there is essentially nothing to lose by going down to a 3 int from there. This exact same situation applies to fighters. You lose the expertise chain of feats as soon as you drop to 12 int. Having a low int limits entry to prestige classes that have large skill requirements and that's about it. Clerics are just as likely to be dumb as are sorcerors. Anyone who gets 2 skill points per level and doesn't have int as a key attribute will dump their lowest stat in int except for fighters who will dump their low stat is cha first unless they were planning to take leadership.

Having a high wisdom/cha lets you gloss over your lack of intelligence as a roleplaying handicap.

 

[Artoomis]

edit: see http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10318 for a House Rules discussion of the Rider of Arvoreen prestige class.

 

[Henry@home]

In truth, the same could be said of Monks - who need their four highest numbers to be in stats other than INT.

A 25 point-buy monk would probably look like the paladin, except for about 2 points higher.

 

[The Souljourner]

HAHA when you put "Why are Paladins so Dumb" I thought you meant the Paladins gaming or actions not his stats... most of them arent to bright on the wisdom criteria as well...

Yeah, that was kind of the point of the title, I'm glad someone thought it was funny

OK, so a few questions about the lance doubling your damage - do you think it should double smite damage and/or divine might damage?

-The Souljourner

 

[Jeremy]

If it's extra damage dice (flaming, corrosive, sneak attack, sacrifice) it isn't affected by multipliers.

If it is a whole number bonus (smite, strength, enhancement bonus, divine might, power attack) it doubles.

That's the general rule for 3e.

 

[The Souljourner]

Sweet! Thanks, Jeremy.

That certainly makes the lance an awesome weapon for a paladin. What with smite evil, divine might, and whatever else you can think of. There's nothing like adding an extra 80 or so damage to your lance attack at high levels.

Another question - Mounted Halflings and the higher ground bonus. In the PHB it says mounted characters get the higher ground bonus to hit (+1), but is that true of halflings on their medium sized mounts? I could see it going either way.

-The Souljourner

 

[Jeremy]

I'd be inclined to say they do not get the higher ground bonus, for although they are riding atop a medium creature and attacking a medium creature, the medium creature they are astride is a quadroped. I'd only give the high ground +1 against Small or smaller creatures.

You might want to read the Paladin Smackdown and reapersaurus's Paladin Shield Smack in the Sultans of Smack thread. While you don't have to play those two as characters, those two posts in the thread are full of good suggestions for paladins.

Sultans of Smack

 

[Artoomis]

No higher ground bonus for halflings on riding dogs, sorry. Unless, of course, you are flying and make yourselves higher than you opponent.

And yes, your damage potential is high. At higher levels, you'll have Sprited Charge getting X3 damage - X4 if you were Rhino Hide armor. Of course, your AC won't be so hot, but's it's all about choices, isn't it?