Why are people not interested in RPG?

[Li Shenron]

Since I'm currently struggling to find more than 2 players in order to playtest the 5e rules, I have been wondering what is keeping non-gamers from trying out the game with friends...

I used to be much more lucky in the past converting friends into at least casual gamers, so now my problem is probably very simply that most of my friends are more busy with work & family, but my question is much more general, and is related to those who could have the free time, but apparently prefer anything else (so these people are happy to hang out with you, but they prefer to just sit and talk or watch a movie together): why are people not interested in RPG?

So I decided to ask some of them And at least I have identified the following issues:

- some people think that in a RPG most of what you do is drama-acting in character, making elaborate speeches in funny voices, and they find the idea incredibly lame
- some people are seriously scared by the complexity of the game, formulas and structures put them off, they think it is required to learn a lot of rules and they believe they will never be able to do so or that otherwise it will take a long time and lots of headaches ("it feels like school")
- some people just don't sync with the fantasy flavor, dragons and monsters are just not "cool" in their opinion
- some people have a very bad image of gamers in general, and they are scared by the idea that if they join the game they will have to spend the night with immature nerds in heavy metal t-shirts

I think that we gamers ourselves can be responsible for these... and that we should make room for more casual gamers in our games.

What other motives have you encountered in your own experience?

 

[delericho]

IMO, a large part of the problem is that while lots of people would be interested in RPGs, video-games and MMOs provide a much easier way in and do well enough to scratch that same itch. And once they are already enjoying the electonic version, why bother with tabletop?

Additionally, I set up a D&D Meetup about two and a half years ago, and was quite surprised at just how many gamers there actually were in the local area - especially since I had previously been looking for a group for two years without any success at all.

- some people think that in a RPG most of what you do is drama-acting in character, making elaborate speeches in funny voices, and they find the idea incredibly lame

Well, if they're not even going to try the game due to their preconceptions, then I doubt there's much of anything that can be done.

- some people are seriously scared by the complexity of the game, formulas and structures put them off, they think it is required to learn a lot of rules and they believe they will never be able to do so or that otherwise it will take a long time and lots of headaches ("it feels like school")

I think that there's a lot of truth in this. Even though we know you don't need to learn those near-thousand pages of core rules, a potential new player does not, and in many cases is liable to be put off. The three-book model is killing the game.

I do think the D&D boardgames that WotC produced last year are a big help in this regard, and a really good thing. Ideally, I would now like to see them develop a true RPG version of the same - a very light version of D&D that you can take out of the box, read the rules in a few minutes, play for an hour or two, and then put away - with no expectation that you're going to give up every other Tuesday for the next year for the ongoing campaign!

- some people just don't sync with the fantasy flavor, dragons and monsters are just not "cool" in their opinion

That's fair enough. Fortunately, there are plenty of other games out there, many of which are not fantasy.

- some people have a very bad image of gamers in general, and they are scared by the idea that if they join the game they will have to spend the night with immature nerds in heavy metal t-shirts

Again, there's an unfortunate amount of truth in that. And no point in my commenting on how to fix it - anyone who might pay attention also doesn't need to know.

I think that we gamers ourselves can be responsible for these... and that we should make room for more casual gamers in our games.

What we do with our Meetup is that we have a number of ongoing campaigns (which are "closed" after the first session as they depend on recurring characters), and also a number of one-shot games (I try to run four of these in the year, while other GMs run them as they are able).

If I'm honest, the real reason for the one-shots is so that the GMs can try something new, and can basically run whatever they want without having to battle players who just want more D&D. But they're also really good for the more casual players, who probably can't commit to every alternate Tuesday night for a year, but probably can commit to one Saturday afternoon three months from now.

(Of course, we're doubly blessed - we have a website on which to organise all this, and we have a pool of about 30 players in the local area so it's likely that whatever the GM wants to play he'll be able to get a group together.)

 

[Wild Gazebo]

Not able to sit for hours playing a game. My wife can't stand to sit still and gets agitated even if a card game starts getting too long.

Have trouble with immersion: I had one friend sit there bewildered that we were able to follow the game. She said "You guys really can imagine all this stuff can't you?"

Low priority/interest. The idea of a role playing game is less interesting than a board game or a movie. I know I'd rather game than watch a movie...so it works both ways.

Investment. There are dice, books, miniatures, preparation and the need for a number of other willing participants. It really is a bit of an organizational nightmare compared to watching a ballgame with munchies.

It really is a hobby driven market...so you already have to be a bit obsessive...or fanboyish to really get into it and stay. I always here people talk about how successful the early ads were for D&D and how common the game was: I don't remember that much success and clearly remember people making fun of the ads. The ads didn't stop because they were mismanaged or successful: they stopped because it is a very difficult product to initiate and realized they would have to take a grassroots (for lack of a better word) mentality toward promotion. I mean that is why so much r&d has been spent on basic and starter games: it is the biggest stumbling block.

I think the only way to hit a mainstream market again is through a culture trend (popular movie, tv show, or book) or to completely change the medium so that it is entirely accessible and easily implemented...like a site with standing GMs and programming to facilitate the game-play.

Anywho...that's how I see it.

 

[Nagol]

Think of any hobby you don't like. That's the same question an aficionado of that hobby asks when others don't want to join him.

Why am I not interested in bird watching, knitting, or NASCAR races? Because I'm not.

Are there things that can be done to intrigue me into participating in them? Probably, but they aren't likely to be sustainable, good for the hobby as a whole, and almost certainly will affect the enjoyment of those who currently enjoy those activities.

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

Most people (like electricity) tend to follow the path of least resistance (or effort).

They can get "good enough" entertainment out of TV, films or video games rather than reading a book, going to the theatre or playing tabletop games.

There are so many easily available entertainments these days you're competing for time and ease.

I think tabletop games are worth the effort, but the great majority, don't.

As for reading, 2% of the people buy 50% of the books, which is why the publishing world is rapidly changing with eBooks as it's those 2% that are beginning to convert.

As for the future? I suspect what will happen and it may be better than I would have thought five years ago.

 

[the Jester]

The biggest thing is probably the whole "spend 4 to 8 hours on the same game EVERY WEEK??" time sink.

 

[GhostBear]

There are a lot of generic rules-light systems out there that can alleviate the problem of complexity and fantasy. If those two concerns are the core reason why someone doesn't want to play then that part, at least, is very easy to fix.

 

[Stumblewyk]

I think negative and false preconceptions are an enormous stumbling block. I've "converted" several gamers in the last few years, and many of them came to table with some odd preconceptions about what gaming entailed.

My wife was *convinced* that gaming involved some weird ritual we all took part in. My friend's wife was pretty sure that we used props and spoke in accents and funny voices. My old bandmate thought we just made stuff up out of whole cloth with zero direction or input.

Now sure, with the exception of the truly bizarre ritual my wife thought my friends and I were performing on a monthly basis, each of the above things I mentioned COULD be part of someone's game. But the perception was that those things WERE the game. That they were part-and-parcel with playing a pen and paper RPG. And that put them off. A lot.

After I convinced them to sit down and *TRY* it, to see what my game was, their perceptions were changed. My old bandmate doesn't play regularly anymore, but my wife is a fairly active gamer, and my friend's wife is still learning (but I can see the light bulbs going off in her head as she plays - she's enjoying it).

Like it or not, gaming still has (and probably always will have) a stigma to it. It's played by the geeks, not by the jocks (for the most part). It's got weird rules. You have to dress up. You have to speak in funny voices. Those sterotypes will probably never go away, but gamers need to be prepared and capable of fighting them if we want to bring more people into the hobby, or increase it's acceptance in popular culture, if that's what we even want. I'm pretty sure some people in the hobby STILL like the fact that the hobby is difficult to bring new people into. They can make the game remain "theirs" then, and not let outsiders corrupt it.

/end SoapBoxRant

 

[Mongo]

Some people keep saying that RPGs are a dying hobby. I'm not so sure of that, but I agree that they aren't as popular as in the 1980s. I keep thinking, though, that it might be cyclical. Maybe in the next 5 or 10 years, hairy high school kids will start a new RPG phase.

mongo

 

[Consonant Dude]

For the most part, they aren't more popular because they are too complicated and time-consuming. And whenever efforts are made to make the games less complicated, hardcore gamers (who shouldn't be the reference when it comes to designing better and more accessible games) barge in to say that the new game needs new rules, more rules, more detailed rules.

This is what happened with Pathfinder. I mean, 3rd edition was good game but its main problem was clutter. Instead of cleaning it up, people asked for more rules on top of it.

By and large, if you ask the average roleplayer how they feel about a 200-page corebook, they'll tell you that's a cool size. Some might even tell you it's a little incomplete and they prefer the massive monstrosity (we're breaking the 300 and 400 page more and more these days).

They just don't get how for Joe-average, the person who isn't gaming and has an active lifestyle, the idea that you need a 200-page instruction manual to learn how to play a game would be totally bizarre, alien. It's not just a major turnoff. It's a definite dealbreaker for many.

And that's where the hobby is now. The breakthrough of roleplaying came thanks to products like the LBBs and the red box. And then people didn't figure out that, as the page count went up, so did the barrier of entry into roleplaying.

And that disconnect isn't about to be a thing of the past, I'm afraid, because companies and designers continue to gather their feedback almost exclusively from a dwindling veteran base of roleplayers.

Sometimes, less is more. And improving is not synonymous with adding.