D&D 5E Why are potions of healing so expensive?

[Dragonsbane]

No system works for everyone, although okay to dead (or unconscious) is incredibly common in all sorts of games.

How does Cypher System handle it?

Cypher System has pools for Might, Speed, and Intellect, which are like endurance HP but also power your abilities, such as Might points used for a Warrior power. There is a damage track, and when 1 pool is depleted you are impaired, meaning no crits and spending points on Effort is more expensive. This represents an injury, like a broken arm perhaps, and really plays up the fact things are tougher as you get hurt. Two pools drop to zero, now you are debilitated, basically unable to do much but crawl. All three go to zero and you are dead.

Additionally, many things just drop you on the damage track, such as falling a large distance (no tough Fighters just jumping and hoping for the best), a deadly trap, an NPC with a knife to your throat, hit while unconscious, etc. The DM can rule something just moves you down the track, preventing the absurd 100hp fighter with 5hp left from being "totally fine".


Monte Cook games made Cypher System (he worked on 3.5 ed, Planescape, etc), and it really is a much improved version (mechanics wise) of DnD.

Yep. These are the rules. In fact, "100% capable until 0 hp" has been the status quo for the last 40+ years.

There used to be some fun special cases, though. Like weapons of sharpness removing limbs or vorpal weapons removing heads.

Since it has been this way 40 years, it should just stay? No sense of improvement possible? LOL it just makes no sense. It's very video-gamey, as is 5E resting. No one regenerates all their wounds in one night.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It's very video-gamey, as is 5E resting. No one regenerates all their wounds in one night.

1) Video games got HP from D&D and its wargame predecessors. So it's very D&D-y.

2) How and why is 'videogamey' an insult? What is with the weird animosity tabletop players have for video games?

3) HP aren't wounds.

 

[Dragonsbane]

1) Video games got HP from D&D and its wargame predecessors. So it's very D&D-y.

2) How and why is 'videogamey' an insult? What is with the weird animosity tabletop players have for video games?

3) HP aren't wounds.

#2) It isn't an insult. But some players, including myself, like more of a sense of realism (including magic and it's limits) and consistency. Fighters shouldn't be able to fall 100 feet and live. The hero should not be functioning as if totally uninjured to 1% hp, and then taking a glancing blow and get knocked out. Potions that heal you should not be a few silver pieces because if they were every single person in the world would carry one.

 

[Ovinomancer]

#2) It isn't an insult. But some players, including myself, like more of a sense of realism (including magic and it's limits) and consistency. Fighters shouldn't be able to fall 100 feet and live. The hero should not be functioning as if totally uninjured to 1% hp, and then taking a glancing blow and get knocked out. Potions that heal you should not be a few silver pieces because if they were every single person in the world would carry one.

Most problems with hitpoints stem from how a person has decided to think of them. One can always change their mind.

Hitpoints are not anything. If you think they are wounds, or that successful attack rolls and damage are wounds, this is on you, not hitpoints, though. Nothing wrong with this , of course, to each their own. Just pointing out that your stated problems with hitpoints are self-inflicited. That said, I'm not terribly fond of them, either, but for a game they do a decent enough job while avoiding realistic damage systems that largely end up as unfun. Cypher system doesn't do any better a job -- how is spending might both power abilities and make you easier to hurt? Warriors doing warrior things means they're easier to defeat? No odder than hitpoints.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Most problems with hitpoints stem from how a person has decided to think of them. One can always change their mind.

Hitpoints are not anything. If you think they are wounds, or that successful attack rolls and damage are wounds, this is on you, not hitpoints, though. Nothing wrong with this , of course, to each their own. Just pointing out that your stated problems with hitpoints are self-inflicited. That said, I'm not terribly fond of them, either, but for a game they do a decent enough job while avoiding realistic damage systems that largely end up as unfun. Cypher system doesn't do any better a job -- how is spending might both power abilities and make you easier to hurt? Warriors doing warrior things means they're easier to defeat? No odder than hitpoints.

Losing hit points must mean at least a minor injury, otherwise things like poison wouldn't work.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Losing hit points must mean at least a minor injury, otherwise things like poison wouldn't work.

Nope. Losing hp to poison can simply represent an expenditure of luck that prevents the poison from actually entering your body. Just like taking a crit might mean you turned the blow from your paldron at the last moment.

Hitpoints represent nothing, so they can be described as anything. Impediments to this are almost always self-selecting.

 

[Mort]

#2) It isn't an insult. But some players, including myself, like more of a sense of realism (including magic and it's limits) and consistency.

That's great. But it pays to remember that D&D is a fantasy game "realism" needs to be taken in that context.

Fighters shouldn't be able to fall 100 feet and live.

I HATE this argument!

Why not?

1. People survive huge falls. A high level fighter is one that has defied the odds on any number of occasions, why not when falling?
2. This is not "our" world. Mages fly, teleport and throw lightning. Mid level rogues walk out unscathed from a massive fireball. Is it too much to believe that a "measly" fighter might learn a few tricks along the way to survive a big fall (And not even unscathed like the monk falling next to him)? Or are we back to fighter's cant have/do nice things?

The hero should not be functioning as if totally uninjured to 1% hp, and then taking a glancing blow and get knocked out.

Maybe, maybe not. Real fights are a weird thing, once adrenalin starts flowing. Quite often a person in a real fight keeps going right up until they don't - and collapse. Even after taking injuries that SHOULD down them repeatedly.

But more than that, death spirals are simply not fun. Forcing a player to play out a death spiral is irritating to the DM and the player. HP are a way around that, though obviously not to everyone's satisfaction.

Potions that heal you should not be a few silver pieces because if they were every single person in the world would carry one.

I mostly agree, but it would be interesting (and different) if they were plentiful.

A world, where your average peasant carried a healing potion around would have some interesting implications - and might be interesting to explore.

 

[billd91]

I HATE this argument!

Why not?

1. People survive huge falls. A high level fighter is one that has defied the odds on any number of occasions, why not when falling?
2. This is not "our" world. Mages fly, teleport and throw lightning. Mid level rogues walk out unscathed from a massive fireball. Is it too much to believe that a "measly" fighter might learn a few tricks along the way to survive a big fall (And not even unscathed like the monk falling next to him)? Or are we back to fighter's cant have/do nice things?

People rarely survive huge falls even if it does sometimes happen. But I think people are well within their rights to look askance at a player who is blasé about a 100 foot fall because the player knows they have the hit points to survive it.

 

[Mort]

People rarely survive huge falls even if it does sometimes happen.

In our world it's rare.

But this isn't our world, it's a fantasy world where mythic things happen.

But I think people are well within their rights to look askance at a player who is blasé about a 100 foot fall because the player knows they have the hit points to survive it.

1. If you have characters jumping off cliffs just for kicks, that's a different issue and is more a disruptive player issue than a system one.
2. The character is punished - average damage is 35, the character is now that much less ready for a real fight.
3. Character jumps off cliff. DM looks at notes - sees there is a troll tribe at the bottom. Mid level fighter, now hurt and without backup (they're at the top of the cliff) wins a nice Darwin award (dies stupidly).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Nope. Losing hp to poison can simply represent an expenditure of luck that prevents the poison from actually entering your body. Just like taking a crit might mean you turned the blow from your paldron at the last moment.

And how does the character end up with poisoned condition? Or are you also arguing that poisoned condition doesn't represent being poisoned?