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D&D 5E Why are potions of healing so expensive?

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Since a character is perfectly 100% functional all the way down to 1 hp, it's hard to argue that they have broken arms or legs.

"Sure I can wield this 2-handed sword with just as much efficacy as ever - but trust me...my arm is broken." :rolleyes:
To be fair on the broken arm tangent, I think this post & this other one or the spirit of their thrust are in some way related to the metaphorical broken arms analogies if you trace back a few posts to how they started. Even if not the case it's worth noting the vanishingly small number of long lasting debuffs & status effects that are not erased by a long rest or even a long or short rest (the clay golem thing, mummy rot, death).
 

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Mort

Legend
Supporter
Since a character is perfectly 100% functional all the way down to 1 hp, it's hard to argue that they have broken arms or legs.

"Sure I can wield this 2-handed sword with just as much efficacy as ever - but trust me...my arm is broken." :rolleyes:
"just about" does a bit of work there.

But sure you can: Your arm is broken (you're down to 10 HP from 100 HP) but your still wielding the 2 handed sword. You're still doing damage with it but really opening yourself up to attack more than you had been. That's why a 10 HP hit puts you down whereas before it didn't.

Note, that's just a quick example. The point is, HP are so general you can flavor/fluff them anyway you really want too. or you can just not think about it that much.
 

Democratus

Adventurer
"just about" does a bit of work there.

But sure you can: Your arm is broken (you're down to 10 HP from 100 HP) but your still wielding the 2 handed sword. You're still doing damage with it but really opening yourself up to attack more than you had been. That's why a 10 HP hit puts you down whereas before it didn't.

Note, that's just a quick example. The point is, HP are so general you can flavor/fluff them anyway you really want too. or you can just not think about it that much.
If you were open up to attack more, you'd have a worse AC or give opponents advantage (Barbarians, anyone?).

You can, of course, house rule hp/AC/etc. to be anything you want. Your table, your rules. :)
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
If you were open up to attack more, you'd have a worse AC or give opponents advantage (Barbarians, anyone?).

You can, of course, house rule hp/AC/etc. to be anything you want. Your table, your rules. :)

You seem to be advocating for a more nuanced more specific system?

HPs just are not that. HPs mean exactly: When you have them you are up, when you don't (at 0) you are down. Anything else is fluff.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Sure. The blue-highlighted section ties HD to Exhaustion in some way.

RESTS

Breather. A period of 15 minutes where a character can attend to Wounds, eat an iron ration, quench their thirst, inspect a map, salvage arrows or bolts from a combat encounter, put out a fire and/or attend to other small duties or desires. A character cannot expend Hit Dice for hit points during a Breather.

Short Rest. A period of downtime, at least 1 hour long, during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to Wounds. A character can expend Hit Dice for hit points during a Short Rest.

Travel Rest. A period of downtime, at least 8 hours in length, during which a character sleeps and may participate in light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours. If the Travel Rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity - at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity - the character must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it. A character can expend Hit Dice for hit points during a Travel Rest.

A Travel Rest allows a character to remove 1 level of Exhaustion. Should the character not be suffering from any levels of Exhaustion, they may regain spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character’s total number of them, rounded down (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice and not suffering from Exhaustion, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a travel rest. A character can’t benefit from more than one Travel Rest in a 24-hour period, and a character must have at least 1 hit point at the start of the rest to gain its benefits.

Long Rest. A Long Rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 24 hours in length, of uninterrupted rest during which a character sleeps for a minimum of 8 hours and may participate in light activity: reading, talking, eating or performing some task, be it a craft or otherwise which derives the character pleasure (mental, spiritual or physical).
If the Long Rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity—at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity—the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.

Furthermore two or more requirements, reflected below, must be in effect.

Safety from Threat of Attack ~ This could mean a thorough watch is posted – for example, a well-guarded Elf camp in [their forest] would allow a long rest. Arguably lying rolled in your cloak in a ditch just off the Forest Road, with your [Halfling] friend trying to stay awake and watch for Spiders, would not.
Comfort ~ Sleeping in a Dwarf hall carved from the heart of a mountain is a very different experience than sleeping in a Goblin tunnel. Comfort might mean a bed. It might mean good food. It might mean good company that allows for proper rest.
Tranquility ~ Some locations may simply provide an air of peace that means good rest is available to a company. This could be an ancient Elf ruin that has held onto some of its former glow of goodness. It could be a campsite next to a bright river that raises the spirits. This is very much in line with building the feeling of [the Setting], [if it is one] where characters can find peace in the wildest of places.

At the end of a Long Rest, a character regains all lost hit points and all spent Hit Dice. Additionally a character removes all levels of Exhaustion. A character must have at least 1 hit point at the start of the rest to gain its benefits.

FORCED RECOVERY

Forced Recovery. Forced Recovery is the term used to describe when a character pushes themselves beyond the prescribed safety limits to use their abilities. Performing a Forced Recovery to use a Short or Long Rest ability costs x amount of Hit Dice (as per table below). Hit Dice shortfalls incur Exhaustion levels on a 1-to-1 basis. The important take away is the player decides the power level of the ability being recovered.

Example 1: A 7th-level fighter performing a Forced Recovery to use an Action Point in order to do one additional attack will cost 1 Hit Dice (Level Required 1-4). Using an Action Point to do two additional attacks will cost 2 Hit Dice as fighters need to be 5th level or higher to benefit from the Extra Attack class feature.

Example 2: A 7th-level wizard performing a Forced Recovery to cast a Magic Missile as a 1st or 2nd level spell slot will cost 1 Hit Dice (Level Required 1-4). Casting the Magic Missile as a 3rd level spell slot will cost 2 Hit Dice as it would require the wizard to be at least 5th level to cast 3rd level spells.

LEVEL REQUIRED FOR ABILITY​
HIT DICE COST​
1-4​
1​
5-8​
2​
9-12​
3​
13-16​
4​

RITUALS

We use the above table for rituals as well, deeming rituals to require some sort of physical exertion on the part of the caster so that casters cannot cast rituals all day long.


Okay. finally had time to read this, and wow, it is way more brutal than I expected. I love the idea of being able to spend HD to use abilities, that is cool, but a "travel rest" only allowing you to recover HD if you have no exhaustion can be brutal.

Unless you are in safety. two levels of exhaustion means it will take you three days to be able to recover hp. I don't think I like that aspect of it. I appreciate the breakdown, and it makes a lot of sense, but I could see that spiralling way to fast. Especially with you needing to spend HD for rituals. Those are supposed to be fairly free, by doing this you have made casting Detect magic as a 10 minute ritual worse than casting it with a spell slot.

I might take some ideas from the Long Rest and Forced Recovery, but I couldn't use this system in its entirety.
 

Okay. finally had time to read this, and wow, it is way more brutal than I expected. I love the idea of being able to spend HD to use abilities, that is cool, but a "travel rest" only allowing you to recover HD if you have no exhaustion can be brutal.

Unless you are in safety. two levels of exhaustion means it will take you three days to be able to recover hp. I don't think I like that aspect of it. I appreciate the breakdown, and it makes a lot of sense, but I could see that spiralling way to fast. Especially with you needing to spend HD for rituals. Those are supposed to be fairly free, by doing this you have made casting Detect magic as a 10 minute ritual worse than casting it with a spell slot.

I might take some ideas from the Long Rest and Forced Recovery, but I couldn't use this system in its entirety.

Thank you, I do appreciate the criticism as it provides different points of view which is always helpful to identify shortcomings.

We do not keep to the x encounters per day paradigm and I certainly did not want to go the gritty realism route as per the DMG which I felt was too harsh and nonsensical. i.e. Why do I need a week's rest to learn a spell?
I also wanted to decrease the level of magic in the campaign that I didn't want full spell allotments after the official 8 hour long rest.
We feel this is a nice go-between the PHB system and the DMG's gritty system.
It also makes extended travel somewhat dangerous which is something I as DM was opting for.

With regards to your comment re exhaustion. It is certainly is valid but very much dependent on the table. I'd imagine it would depend on how often characters earned the exhausted condition within your game. This travel can ofc easily be tweaked to suit your table's needs.
At our table with so many spells allowing the party a safe travel rest, we do not find this an issue. Furthermore, as DM, I'm also not rolling every hour on the hour on the encounter table - particularly in the wilderness. And we do not do massive dungeon crawls.

Where I find that I agree with you is the HD cost re Rituals and will likely soften it somewhat. Perhaps cheapen it by 1HD across the board.
 
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Dragonsbane

Proud Grognard
Since a character is perfectly 100% functional all the way down to 1 hp, it's hard to argue that they have broken arms or legs.

"Sure I can wield this 2-handed sword with just as much efficacy as ever - but trust me...my arm is broken." :rolleyes:
And here we have the issue. People are 100% until 0 hp? Makes no sense, especially for a 4hp commoner.
HP loss doesn't cause broken arms.
So is there no injury made by weapons that actually hurts anyone until 0 hp?? 100hp fighter down to 5hp, just sweating a little? This is one of the many reasons why my 5E group switched to Cypher System.
 

Oofta

Legend
And here we have the issue. People are 100% until 0 hp? Makes no sense, especially for a 4hp commoner.

So is there no injury made by weapons that actually hurts anyone until 0 hp?? 100hp fighter down to 5hp, just sweating a little? This is one of the many reasons why my 5E group switched to Cypher System.
No system works for everyone, although okay to dead (or unconscious) is incredibly common in all sorts of games.

How does Cypher System handle it?
 


Democratus

Adventurer
And here we have the issue. People are 100% until 0 hp? Makes no sense, especially for a 4hp commoner.

So is there no injury made by weapons that actually hurts anyone until 0 hp?? 100hp fighter down to 5hp, just sweating a little? This is one of the many reasons why my 5E group switched to Cypher System.

Yep. These are the rules. In fact, "100% capable until 0 hp" has been the status quo for the last 40+ years.

There used to be some fun special cases, though. Like weapons of sharpness removing limbs or vorpal weapons removing heads. :)
 

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