D&D 5E Why are potions of healing so expensive?

4e had a wonderful mechanic for long lasting consequences: the disease track. You could easily create a series of injury modelled on the disease track, with multiple stages, and have them as consequences to dropping to 0. Say you drop to 0, roll on the injury table; and now your character is stuck with the 'Broken Leg' "disease" and you need to take certain steps to repair that injury.

But like many things in 4e that had lots of potential, they weren't given a second chance to improve...
I liked the disease track and have ported it to 5e for some situations.

The Exhaustion track is also a great way to impose consequences that won't go away so easily.

Only issue with either is overuse can lead to death spirals and, aside from any "realism" concerns, IMO death spirals are just no fun.
 
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5e exhaustion track is pretty similar though.

Kinda but not really.

The disease track had specific skill check you needed to pass (you could only try once per long rest) to improve and certain situation could worsen it. And the penalty they imparted were custom to each condition. It wasn't a 'one size fit all' design. Some diseases had many steps, others not so much.

Like if you got the 'Sprained Ankle' condition it would make no sense if you had 1 stage of exhaustion. You'd have a penalty to speed and acrobatics but everything else would be unimpaired.
 

We have some hombrew rules for potions, if you spend an action, you roll the dice but if you do nothing but drink the potion, it has its full effect. Works the same for all potions. Quaff down a fly potion too quickly, it might not last as long as you thought.

you could make potions slightly cheaper and they have variable effects while the 50gp ones have full effect; , take more time to take effect (take minutes instead of seconds); or healing potions that do nothing more than auto-stabilize you and allow you to spend your HD instantly.
 

Only issue with either is overuse can lead to death spirals and, aside from any "realism" concerns, IMO death spirals are just no fun.

So in addressing @Mort's comment above does anyone have any ideas around making death spirals more interesting, perhaps porting something over from a different game. In 4e some creatures received powers when in the bloodied state - I was thinking the same could occur when one entered the death spiral.
The obvious go-to idea is a refresh of the Inspiration Point (Desperation Point).
 

Secondly, I am distinctly aware of which mechanics appear bare-faced by some players, I suspect in the instance with HD it is primarily due to their "newness". In my table's own game we have tied HD to more than just reserves for hit points but also to the refresh rates of abilities, the casting of rituals and the exhaustion track. Thus we are treating HD as a proper reserve mechanic.

Do you mind clarifying this? In the thread or in a PM. I've made HD more impactful by making long rests only heal HP by the spending of Hit Dice, and I think I did a few sorcerer things with them, but I'm interested in seeing if your system could be adapted for my own use.
 

4e had a wonderful mechanic for long lasting consequences: the disease track. You could easily create a series of injury modelled on the disease track, with multiple stages, and have them as consequences to dropping to 0. Say you drop to 0, roll on the injury table; and now your character is stuck with the 'Broken Leg' "disease" and you need to take certain steps to repair that injury.

But like many things in 4e that had lots of potential, they weren't given a second chance to improve...

Huh, that sounds like something I'd be interested in looking into, but I don't remember seeing it in the 4e DMG. Did I miss it or was it in a supplemental book?

Honestly... there was just so much good in 4e. It is a shame that it has such vitriol and that many people who talk about "DnD" talk about it like it was an unbroken line... with a mild speed bump called 4e.
 

So in addressing @Mort's comment above does anyone have any ideas around making death spirals more interesting, perhaps porting something over from a different game. In 4e some creatures received powers when in the bloodied state - I was thinking the same could occur when one entered the death spiral.
The obvious go-to idea is a refresh of the Inspiration Point (Desperation Point).


Death spirals, definitionally, can't be made into a good thing. I know you understand the concept, but just to lay out my reasoning. The very concept of a death spiral is that as a bad thing happens, it becomes harder for good things to happen and easier for worse things to happen.

To actually clumsily port this over to an hp example, it would be as if you took more damage the lower your hp is. For example, if we do intervals of 10, and a player has 110 hp, you would expect you can take 11 hits. But, if they take +3 damage every time they cross a threshold (representing the harder time they are having dealing with blows and the increasing damage to the body) then you would get

110 -10 = 100
100 - 13 = 87
87 - 19 = 68
68 - 22 = 46
46 - 31 = 15
15 - 37 = DEAD

Taking 10 damage each time results in death within 6 blows, instead.


So, Death Spirals can't be made interesting, but perhaps they could be mitigated and the effects made more interesting. Something like a boon or boost for hitting 50% or 25% health does something like this. But, I think debilitating injuries like "broken leg, half speed for the next six months with magical healing" simply don't support any sort of counter-balance. The best I could think of would be to create bonuses for being super healthy and in shape, but in practice that just acts as a boost and makes players even more likely to immediately over-treat any injury.

Maybe though, some sort of meta-currency. This goes way beyond DnD's normal rules, and I know some people despise meta-currency, but I could see something like this working. I'm going to call them Action Points, because that is a thing in DnD already to a degree.

DM: The Ogre cries with their club, as you raise your shield to defend. Jim, you have a choice. If you accept a "Broken Arm" from the critical it will prevent you from using that arm unless you take disadvantage on everything from the pain. That will last for a week. But, you'll get three Action points. If it is just sprained, the penalty will last for only a day, but you'll get only one Action Point. Or, no penalty, no points."

I know this sort of interaction would slow the game down, and it could be weird for some people, but it does two important things. 1) It makes the injury the players choice. This is HUGE. If you force these sort of decisions on players, they will resent it, but if you make it a choice, a gamble between taking a penalty and hoping for a reward, then they can get invested in it. 2) It balances the penalty by giving them something of value. I'm thinking of Action Points because I'm thinking of cinematic and heroic actions. But it could also be a system like Piety. The idea is, it is more heroic and awesome to be severely injured in the course of combat than it is to be minority hurt in combat. Batman getting stabbed isn't super exciting. Batman getting stabbed... then spending the rest of the issue still fighting despite him bleeding out is a lot more notable.

But, this is just a 30-second brainstorm.
 

No. I do tire of arguing with idiots.

I dislike mechanics that are dissociated from the underlying game setting and thus dissociative to the player as well. Hit points are not. Powers with no explanation in game are. Hit points are just a way of conveying the well being of the character between GM and player.
Nah dude, HP are a gamist construct. Describe the following in a realistic manner.

Bob is hit by a sword for 14 hit points of damage.

Ted is healed for 3 HP of damage.

To "realistically" narrate either, you basically have to take into account what percent of their whole Hp each wound represents. If Bob is a 1st level schmuck, that 14 damage is life threatening or fatal. For a high level guy, unless you find it realistic for people to run around with their guts hanging out and no negative performance impact, that 14 HP is a scratch.

If Ted has 4 HP, that 3 HP of healing is impressive. If Ted has 100, that 3 HP means nothing.

Nearly EVERY time friggin verisimilitude is invoked, it's just code for "Don't give fighters nice things!".
 

I prefer to track HP to badassedness or how much action you can take before being out of the fight. How this is represented depends on the character.

James Bond (if not being played by Craig) hardly shows any damage and even when 'hit', it's actually a near miss. Then, a henchman hits him on the back of the head and he goes down.

Meanwhile, John McClane gets hit and bleeds over every HP until he is visibly run down and might just pass out after the fact.

I let my players decide how their character are effected by HP and let healing potions be potions of vim and vigor that will seal minor wounds if needed. They won't save a farmer crushed by a fallen horse because that's an actual serious wound, which heroes never get unless it's explicitly written in.
 

Huh, that sounds like something I'd be interested in looking into, but I don't remember seeing it in the 4e DMG. Did I miss it or was it in a supplemental book?

Honestly... there was just so much good in 4e. It is a shame that it has such vitriol and that many people who talk about "DnD" talk about it like it was an unbroken line... with a mild speed bump called 4e.

I believe it was in the DMG. Basically you have Endurance/Heal DC (if you were proficient in the Heal skill you could replace a victim's Endurance roll) you need to overcome to improve, but you also have one that stabilize the disease and a floor underneath which your condition worsens. And you have multiple stages of the disease with one being the initial stage. At final stage you can't roll anymore. Sometimes the target is dead or you need serious help to cure it like the Cure Disease spell (which might have been a Ritual in 4e?). They also had levels...

D&D wiki has a list but they're all very high level threats with few stages. Still, it's a flexible concept. It's also useable for curses and stuff.


Nearly EVERY time friggin verisimilitude is invoked, it's just code for "Don't give fighters nice things!".
So true! I never see verisimilitude invoked faster than when a martial character is given something cool...
 

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