Why are Warforged so bad?

[Wild Gazebo]

Fanboy, my initial response to the warforged was not one of practical gamability, it was one of getting a feel for the race. I imediately felt there was a great deal of compromise involved including this race--which turned me off slightly. As I've said, I've come to accept the race, as is, but it is hard to shake intitial impressions regardless of how sound any arguments might be. As for the Con score...I actually agree that PCs should have a con score...but constructs should not...I probably would have made a similar compromise if I had created the race. Con represents a players health related to biological function and fitness...contructs are magically animated to allow inert material to mimic life. I understand your feeling about increased Con but I feel that was dealt with by increased HD: d12s for constructs. Warforged are living constructs, both animated and living, encompassing a hybrid of the spark of life and animation.

 

[fanboy2000]

Wild Gazebo, I understand why you're first impressions were negative. What I was trying to respond to was the more general idea I see ocationaly, that the warforged should have a level adjustment. It dosen't come-up often, but when it does, it's usually from the stand-point that it makes more sense for House Cannith to make constructs that have a level adjustment.

The problem for me is that a slew of new races with level adustments would have turned me off to Eberron. We have a campaign setting like that already, it's called Forgotten Realms. Also, the lack of subraces with was a real boon also. I looked at Races of Eberron the other day and was happy to find that while they listed Elves for other locations in seperate entries, they all have the same racial traits.

I don't think we disagree with the con score issue. I just wanted to say that it makes no sense to me that constructs don't have one.

 

[Klaus]

My problem with the warforged, as I alluded to earlier in this thread, is the fact that these animated pieces of wood and metal have a Constitution score. Interestingly, though, everything that score means is taken out of the equation with their immunities and such. They are not "living", really. They are sentient, yes, but not alive.

I'm fine with the concept of the warforged, and can see no problem with having one in a D&D campaign. But when the designers give them a Con score, my brain derails and crashes. Does not compute.

Quasqueton

You mean like a treant, who is an animated piece of wood?

Or like an earth elemental, an animated piece of rock?

Or a lantern archon, who is nothing but light?

Warforged *do* have an internal anatomy, held together by magic. They can partake in heroes' feasts, drink potions and sample wine (there is even a warforged bar in Sharn... they just can't get drunk!). Warforged still feel pain, and the loss of a limb can be as traumatic for them as for anyone else (you can restore hit points with the Craft skill, but it takes Regeneration to make up new limbs, just like humans).

As for emotions: Pierce, the warforged scout/fighter in the novel City of Towers, has a deep connection with his friend Lei, bordering on devotion, maybe love. And it is the hardest goodbye for Lei would be Pierce's, not the others'.

 

[jgbrowning]

Warforged *do* have an internal anatomy, held together by magic. They can partake in heroes' feasts, drink potions and sample wine (there is even a warforged bar in Sharn... they just can't get drunk!). Warforged still feel pain, and the loss of a limb can be as traumatic for them as for anyone else (you can restore hit points with the Craft skill, but it takes Regeneration to make up new limbs, just like humans).

As for emotions: Pierce, the warforged scout/fighter in the novel City of Towers, has a deep connection with his friend Lei, bordering on devotion, maybe love. And it is the hardest goodbye for Lei would be Pierce's, not the others'.

Why not just make a new type for them then as opposed to hijacking [construct] and then basically picking and choosing based upon game-balance what parts of [construct] are applicable? That's my only beef. They should have them be [Souled Construct] or some such.

joe b.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Why not just make a new type for them then as opposed to hijacking [construct] and then basically picking and choosing based upon game-balance what parts of [construct] are applicable? That's my only beef. They should have them be [Souled Construct] or some such.

You mean like Outsider (Native) ?

 

[jgbrowning]

You mean like Outsider (Native) ?

Naw, they could do exactly what they want by making a new type. If they chose Outsider (native) they'd have to alter things to suit what they want. The idea of the Warforged is pretty cool and can be boadened out enough to make a pretty good type IMHO.

joe b.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Naw, they could do exactly what they want by making a new type. If they chose Outsider (native) they'd have to alter things to suit what they want.

Sorry, you misunderstood because I wasn't clear enough.

You mentioned that you didn't like the way the ECS handled Warforged because they took an established creature type (Construct), added a new subtype (Living), and picked and chose the features / traits of the original type to fit what they wanted the Warforged to be.

I brought up Outsider (Native) to draw a parallel: an established creature type (Outsider), that had a new subtype added to it in 3.5 (Native), which picked and chose the features / traits of the original type to fit what they wanted the 20th-level Monk, Tiefling, Aasimar, and Genasi to be.

I didn't see a hue and cry over the latter. I wonder why, all of a sudden, there's the former.

 

[Gez]

They could either make them Construct (Living) or Humanoid (Clockwork*). Neither are entirely satisfying. I think I prefer the living subtype myself, especially as it opens a can of delicious tasty worms: a living dead subtype for undead who still have most trappings of life, for example (I'm thinking of vampires).


* For lack of a better term.


PS: Patryn, the Native subtype for outsider appeared before 3.5. Exactly like for living constructs, it first appeared in a campaign setting, to accomodate the needs of new player races: in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.

 

[Spatula]

My problem with the warforged, as I alluded to earlier in this thread, is the fact that these animated pieces of wood and metal have a Constitution score. Interestingly, though, everything that score means is taken out of the equation with their immunities and such. They are not "living", really. They are sentient, yes, but not alive.

Explain elementals, please. Animated unliving matter with Constitution scores and similar immunities to the warforged.

 

[frankthedm]

1. They can have thier bodies enchanted and thus have unstealable magic items.

2. Immunity to disease and poison is a BIG thing in my opinion. Even more so with energy drain.

3. they have thier own healing magic and on top of that, the healing magic for other creatures at 1/2 rate.


I also dislike the Native outsider BS. That which is Not or No Longer natural, should be vulnerable to being forcibly ejected from the material world. 50% feind? 50% bodymass Gone With The Banishment. At one with Nirvana? Dismisal is your front row seat!.