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PS: Patryn, the Native subtype for outsider appeared before 3.5. Exactly like for living constructs, it first appeared in a campaign setting, to accomodate the needs of new player races: in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.
It first appeared in the 3.0 FRCS, as I recall. And it was also needed as a game mechanic for monks and other transformational classes ("So wait, I hit 20th level and now I can't be raised? And that's supposed to be a benefit?!?"). It seemed clunky to me then (they're like outsiders, but not really!), and it still does, as do the living construct and deathless types from Eberron (is the deathless type really necessary?).
But, eh, it's not a big deal. Just a quibble over design principles. The end result would be the same if they had created a new type for these exceptions, or shoe-horned them in to a different type (constructed humanoid, etc.), or whatever.
I don't get your point. Are you trying to draw parallels between those works of fiction and Eberron? Their similarities are tangential at best. I'm aware that Keith Baker used those works to pitch Eberron to WotC, but the fact is they are very distinct from Eb in that they have a very minimal amount of magic in them. This is why the shadow's powers scare people. This is why the nazis receive a very big surprise when they open the ark.
PS: Patryn, the Native subtype for outsider appeared before 3.5. Exactly like for living constructs, it first appeared in a campaign setting, to accomodate the needs of new player races: in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.
You know, I'm not sure about the mechanics but I always thought elementals where a type of planar emination or transigence. A being birthed from the elemental nature of an inner plane. I never thought of them as animated. As well, I consider treants and shambling mounds to be living breathing creatures not animated plants. I consider a construct a magically animated object with minor intelligence--but not really possessing a sense of self beyond the recognision of apendages--a glutton for commands. Hence the living construct subtype for warforged...a step beyond construct.
What I was trying to respond to was the more general idea I see ocationaly, that the warforged should have a level adjustment. It dosen't come-up often, but when it does, it's usually from the stand-point that it makes more sense for House Cannith to make constructs that have a level adjustment.
I have no idea who House Cannith is, and my only exposure to warforged is through the MMIII, but I think they should be LA+1 purely based on mechanical reasons.
The problem for me is that a slew of new races with level adustments would have turned me off to Eberron. We have a campaign setting like that already, it's called Forgotten Realms.
I would call that basing rules mechanics on politics. People don't want to play LA+1 races, so make them LA+0. Mechanically, they are stronger than dwarves, the height of LA+0. I would say they are stronger than some of the weaker LA+1 races. LA+1 isn't so bad really. If the construct healing spells had never been made, then maybe I could see LA+0, but as it stands, I can't.
In Eberron, there are a number of Dragonmarked Houses, each made up by a very extended family (more like a clan) and employees, who have virtual control over certain economic areas through various guilds, aided by magical powers provided by their dragonmarks. House Cannith is one of these houses, and they have the Mark of Making, controlling most industries in Khorvaire.
Mechanically, they are stronger than dwarves, the height of LA+0.
I'm not so sure they are stronger than dwarves. Sure, they're outright immune to certain spells, but dwarves get +2 to saves versus all of them. Warforged have to spend a feat to get decent armor, and can't remove it if they're in a situation where it's a hindrance (e.g. climbing). Warforged don't heal naturally (although they can repair themselves - but that requires the Craft skill, which gives them less skill points to use for other things) and only get half benefit from most healing (and most wizards feel they have better things to do with their spells than heal the warforged). They have no special vision unlike dwarves (unlike regular constructs, living constructs specifically do not get darkvision), and have a Wisdom penalty - so despite not sleeping, they don't make particularly good guards, and they're even more vulnerable to mind-affecting magic that isn't humanoid-only. They are also especially vulnerable to certain magics (rusting grasp and heat/chill metal come to mind).
I simply don't understand how people can just dismiss the healing issue.
Warforged don't heal naturally. Period.
They gain only half benefit from magical healing. I've had numerous games where the cleric just about ran out of healing spells, and that was in a group where everyone benefited equally, and not all of them needed healing in that particular encounter. If someone in the group had needed double the spells, they'd have been out a long time ago.
And that's it, unless the party happens to have an artificer. If the party does have an artificer, you're still assuming he'll have the infusions left to do the healing. And even if he does, that means there's something else he's not using his abilites on.
I've played warforged before. The healing issue definitely came into play--especially in the game where the guy playing the artificer couldn't make it.
Do warforged require a DM to take their presence into account? Sure. So do elves, and (IME) to no greater an extent.
Warforged are potent, no argument. But I just don't buy the argument that they should be ECL +1. I've seen them in practice.
...They discovered that binding a soul to a construct body created a ready-made warrior and that being bound to the construct prevented the soul from remembering who it once was. It wasn't that the warforged gained sentience over time, it was that in order to make the warforged perform more autonomously, their creators had to 'relax' the magicks which chained the soul to the body.
I'm playing a character right now that has as one of his main goals in life to become a warforged. Of course, he plans on continuing to remember himself, and he'd settle for undead. Religion: Blood of Vol. But, you know, that's not the sweetest religion. What if we could make people into warforged instead of vampires and liches?
Of coures, he also plans to take the Heir to Syberys PrC. Boy is he going to be dissapointed if he gets that class first and THEN manages to become warforged, neh?
BelenUmeria said:
Does anyone know a human fighter that would not take a fear at first level that granted them DR or Mithral armor? I certainly have not met the player would would choose a different feat if given the chance.
Hey.
Pleased to meetcha.
Personally, I'd much rather wait and be able to BUY the armor that I want, and have a feat open than be forced to waste a feat on what other people could pick up for mere gold, and for suboptimal (for my character) armor at that! Now, if the feat were Armored Body:
1) chose a special material 2) then chose an armor type...
That at least would make more sense. Although I'd still rather they not had this all or nothing armor, and instead they had made exchangable chassis for the race.
If I were a human fighter there's no way I'd be shortsighted enough to take a feat that basically let's me start out with a paltry (if relatively large for first level characters) sum of gold instead of a real, honest feat.
Gez said:
They can't? They won't feel the hormonal urge to have sex with said beautiful woman, but who is to say they can't appreciate beauty? Who is to say they can't feel platonic love and genuine friendship?
Indeed, who's to say that they aren't much, much better at such feelings than their hormonally challenged fully biological brethern?
BelenUmeria said:
Exactly, they do not want to have sex. They do not want to procreate. They may even be immortal, like Data. No one yet knows if they can even die of old age.
Are you sure they don't? Damn. There goes on of my warforged prime drives.
Hell with that. I still say MY warforged indeed does want to procreate. In fact, I believe that
there's a whole colony in the mournlands with procreation as nearly a prime desire
.
BelenUmeria said:
And appreciating a beautiful woman is in large part because you are hormonally attracted to them. How does a warforged even know what a beautiful woman looks like?! They don't. At most, she could be a piece of art, but nothing more. There goes another plot device. I guess I will have to start making sexy tractors with mithral gears.
And there you are my hormonally challenged fellow. You cannot truely appreciate the beauty the way I can, you're mind is too clouded with the impure taint of your lust. Of course you can't truely concieve of real beauty! How could you possibly, when the only value you see in another is that person's reproductive capacity, their potential to partially and temporarily sate your animalistic lusts? Still, though I pity you (and truely I do), I still count you as a friend. Even as flawed by this as you are, you have your own, unique beauty.
