Why are Warforged so bad?

[fanboy2000]

Where in the core books is that depth spelled out?

DMG 3.5 page 6 under the heading "Adjudicating."

 

[KB9JMQ]

I have no problem with the warforged. They seem just fine in my game.
I did give them darkvision though. Just seemed like something a war machine would have.
I have two people playing warforged and one artificer.
Both Warforged are frontline tanks but if the artificer looks like she is in trouble saving her is the main priority.

 

[Hawklord]

I simply don't understand how people can just dismiss the healing issue.

Warforged don't heal naturally. Period.

Got to agree with Mouseferatu here.

Having just played a warforged this was one of the biggest pains - especially when you run out of oil of repair and subsequently have a big knock-on effect on the rest of the party in that you soak up a disproportionate share of the party's healing capability.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It seemed clunky to me then (they're like outsiders, but not really!), and it still does, as do the living construct and deathless types from Eberron (is the deathless type really necessary?).

BIG TIME agreement here. Why make an Outsider or Construct or Undead type that works just like humanoids when you can make a Humanoid type that picks and chooses the limited thinigs you can get from Outsiders or Constructs or Undead? Humanoid (Good) for Aasimar, Humanoid (Clockwork) for Warforged, Humanoid (Risen) for Undead. The Deathless subtype does nearly the same thing...when the game is built from the ground up assuming that things are going to be humanoids, this is a much easier transition to accomodate.

The Warforged are not too powerful. They are, however, annoying. Because that +10 Fort save and that Delay Poison and that suit of armor all represent something for the player sthat have them: they spent rescources to get it.

The Warforged does not have to spend any rescources to get their immunities. They're just BETTER at it. They have to spend extra rescources for other things (healing, armor, etc.), but this doens't make them any easier to integrate when you're challenging certain things that they can do.

Eventually, that cleric will run out of spells. Eventually, that sinking fighter will have to make a choice. A Warforged, however, does not run out of immunity and does not have to make a choice. When a campaign is focused on whittling down the PC's rescources to the point where the players are feeling the tension of the encuonter, the warforged will miss the entire point of it, because he will never feel the tension. That +10 Fort save may be great, but that 5% chance of failure keeps the sweat on the brow, and not every poison has the same DC. The Warforged have no fear. And that changes how you have to arrange the game. You have to accomodate the Warforged in ways that you don't have to accomodate normal air-breathing, poisonable humanoids. In order to evoke the sense of danger you want the PC's to be feeling, you need to constantly be reminded of the fact that the warforged player just isn't in any danger. Yes, there is still the risk of failure, but when the goal is to fear for their lives, failure is a pale substitute. Warforged are immortal. They can always try again.

The warforged, for free, get the immunities and benefits that allow them to wade through certain encoutners without feeling the threat of their own hides. No other race in the game gets that. The rest exist on a continuum that make some better, and some worse, but that do not *preclude* any. This is what is wrong with them.

And they still co-opt the dwarf's schtick.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

The warforged, for free, get the immunities and benefits that allow them to wade through certain encoutners without feeling the threat of their own hides. No other race in the game gets that. The rest exist on a continuum that make some better, and some worse, but that do not *preclude* any. This is what is wrong with them.

Elves are Immune to Sleep Effects.

 

[Gez]

And to ghouls' paralizing touch.


Monks and mages are immune to rust monsters.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Monks and mages are immune to rust monsters.

Which is, of course, horribly broken.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Monks and mages are immune to rust monsters.

Someone's never destroyed Boccob's Blessed Book or a set of steel Bracers of Armor.

Lots of stuff is made of metal. Mwa-ha-ha!

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Someone's never destroyed Boccob's Blessed Book or a set of steel Bracers of Armor.

Lots of stuff is made of metal. Mwa-ha-ha!

But Bracers of Armor isn't a Monk.

 

[ARandomGod]

DMG 3.5 page 6 under the heading "Adjudicating."

Oh yea. Of course, there I have to cross reference the PhB under "You're GM is being a git, and makin' stuff up just to spite you because he don't like you. So get out of there and play with a real GM, or kiss his butt, stop using your own imagination, and just write up a character he likes, then let him run it as an NPC... there's no real point in you running it after all, it's HIS character."

The Warforged are not too powerful. They are, however, annoying. Because that +10 Fort save and that Delay Poison and that suit of armor all represent something for the player sthat have them: they spent rescources to get it.

The Warforged does not have to spend any rescources to get their immunities. They're just BETTER at it. They have to spend extra rescources for other things (healing, armor, etc.), but this doens't make them any easier to integrate when you're challenging certain things that they can do.

Eventually, that cleric will run out of spells. Eventually, that sinking fighter will have to make a choice. A Warforged, however, does not run out of immunity and does not have to make a choice. When a campaign is focused on whittling down the PC's rescources to the point where the players are feeling the tension of the encuonter, the warforged will miss the entire point of it, because he will never feel the tension. That +10 Fort save may be great, but that 5% chance of failure keeps the sweat on the brow, and not every poison has the same DC. The Warforged have no fear. And that changes how you have to arrange the game. You have to accomodate the Warforged in ways that you don't have to accomodate normal air-breathing, poisonable humanoids. In order to evoke the sense of danger you want the PC's to be feeling, you need to constantly be reminded of the fact that the warforged player just isn't in any danger. Yes, there is still the risk of failure, but when the goal is to fear for their lives, failure is a pale substitute. Warforged are immortal. They can always try again.

You're completely right there. When I'm playing a warforged, and I'm getting down on HP's, I completely have no fear that the resources of that heal spell will ever run out. I mean, so it takes twice as many, I've got an unlimited number of clerical cohorts, right? And so what if that spell would work better on the non-warfoged, I'm still going to get my fair share, twice that of anyone else, right?

Right?

D@mn, I think that cleric ran off.