Why aren't all outsiders on the core Summon Monster lists?

[Silveras]

On that note, I put together an Excel spreadsheet with the MM, MMII, FF, MotP, BoVD, and BoED suitable beasties. I usually sort the list by modified (templated) CR to see where things fit relative to monsters that ARE on the list.

I use the PH lists as the "common lists", and allow characters to research alternative creatures.

For reference, here it is

 

[fusangite]

Reading this thread has been a huge help to me. The core lists have been a real problem for me as my characters start with a very limited experience of most creatures; it's almost as though the list of mechanically appropriate creatures and the list of genre appropriate creatures are mutually exclusive.

So this CR/Monster system will be implemented in my very next episode. Thanks everyone!

 

[Gez]

Having reverse-engineered the SM and SNA lists in 3.0, I had come to the conclusion that they worked this way:
SM level : CR range
1 : 0-1/2
2 : 1
3 : 2
4 : 3
5 : 4-5
6 : 6-7
7 : 8-9
8 : 10-11
9 : 12-13

But the closer we came of 3.5, the wider the variations were. The Fiend Folio provided SM and SNA levels for several creatures, and they barely fit within this progression.

 

[Spatula]

Having reverse-engineered the SM and SNA lists in 3.0, I had come to the conclusion that they worked this way:
snip

That's pretty much the exact table given in the pre-3.5 issue of Dragon which expanded the summoning lists. The article explains that spell-casting creatures, creatures with poison, and creatures with a lot of hit dice for their CR need to be bumped up one or more spell levels.

 

[FrankTrollman]

There's a secondary restriction:

Summoned Monsters have to be summoned by a spell which is higher level than a spell they can cast.

This means that the Vrock came in at Summon Monster IX (Mass Charm) - and the Janni came in after the superior Djinn (because of its Etherealizational spell). 3.5 modified what spells some creatures got - and by extension what Summon Monster they come in on.

It's the kind of thing which sounds like a much better idea than it actually is - as many of the utility spells have no real reason to be so high level in the first place. I mean, the Ethereal Jaunt line of spells is only so high level because it allows people to bypass sections of Dungeons and that pissed Gygax off.

Assuming that you want to accomplish something that isn't "get to the 10th level of the Dungeon before Wandering Monsters kill you" - those spells really aren't worth the huge expense. Honestly, Passwall should be a second level spell for all the good it will do you.

-Frank