D&D 3E/3.5 Why be a 3.5 fighter?

[pawsplay]

Having made the argument the fighter is good at what he does, I do want to reiterate that the fighter was still built somewhat weak. Although it's difficult to compare apples to oranges, it does seem like the fighter is not as solid as his specialty as the rogue or sorcerer is at theirs. One thing I like about Pathfinder is the slight beefing up the fighter gets. This is the same character I posted, updated to Pathfinder, for the benefit of those not familiar with the Pathfinder rules. Note the fighter picks up a couple of minor abilities and a numerical increase to his fighting abilities in the form of weapon training and benefits from the more flexible cross-class skills rules. Keeping in mind that members of other classes get some bennies, too, I think this does go a way toward making the fighter more powerful. Example:

Human Fighter 12
Str 18 (22), Dex 12 (14), Con 14 (16), Int 14, Wis 9, Cha 10
Initiative +6
AC 22 (+2 Dex +7 armor +2 shield +1 deflection)
hit points 118
Fort +14 (+8 +3 Con +3 resistance), Will +8 (+4 -1 Wis +3 resistance +2 misc) (+11 versus fear), Ref +9 (+4 +2 Dex +3 resistance)
BAB +12/+7/+2, melee +18, ranged +14, grapple +18
Speed 40 feet
Special abilities: bravery +3, armor training 3, weapon training (heavy blades +2, bows +1)

Feats: EWP (bastard sword) (B), Iron Will, Blind-Fight, Skill focus (UMD), Magical Affinity, Point Blank Shot, W focus (bastard sword), W Spec (bastard sword), W focus (longbow), W Spec (longbow), Precise Shot, Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Deadly Aim.
Skills: Acrobatics 2 (+4), Climb 12 (+21), Handle Animal 6 (+6), Perception 12 (+11), Ride 12 (+17), Spellcraft 2 (+6), Use Magic Device 12 (+22), Swim 2 (+9)

Attacks:
+3 bastard sword +24/+19/+14 1d10+13/19-20
+3 bastard sword (two-handed) +23/+18/+13 1d10+16/19-20 (drops AC by 2)
+1 composite longbow +19/+14/+9 1d8+11/x3 (drops AC by 2)
cold iron morningstar +18/+13/+8 1d8+6

Equipment
bastard sword +3 18335
cold iron morningstar 16 gp
+2 elven chain 8150 (ACP -2)
+1 composite longbow (Str +6) 3000
+1 buckler 1165
amulet of health +2 4000
gloves of dexterity +2 4000
cloak of resistance +3 9000
ring of protection +1 2000
belt of giant strength +4 16000
bracers of archery, lesser 5000
boots of striding and springing 5000
handy haversack 2000
potion of prot from evil (x6) 300 gp
oil of magic weapon (x6) 300
wand of cure light wounds 750
100 cold iron arrows 4
100 silver arrows 6
= 83826

 

[Alexander123]

I have a party consisting of a rogue, cleric, wizard and a druid. (starting at level one.) What I want to know is, is it possible to find a substitute for a fighter or is it absolutely necessary? I’m not sure if I understood this right, but I was reading that the animal companion of a druid can be a substitute for a fighter. (along with the druid when he reaches lvl 5 and with the help of the SNA ally spells.) Do you all think this is doable? Perhaps any suggestions you would make? I prefer having a druid rather than a fighter in my party because I think a fighter is not worth it, more dead weight than anything else. Also a druid brings much more to the party as opposed to fighter who just stands there taking hits, which an intelligent opponent can easily bypass/overcome.

I posted this here instead of starting a new thread because I think the post has relevance to the fighter discussion. BTW great thread guys, really informative.

 

[Dandu]

What I want to know is, is it possible to find a substitute for a fighter or is it absolutely necessary?

1. Yes.
2. Depends.

 

[Nifft]

I have a party consisting of a rogue, cleric, wizard and a druid. (starting at level one.) What I want to know is, is it possible to find a substitute for a fighter or is it absolutely necessary?

It is very possible.

The Fighter isn't absolutely necessary. Is that your question?

I’m not sure if I understood this right, but I was reading that the animal companion of a druid can be a substitute for a fighter.

At 1st level, yes, it can. Starting around 7th level, the Cleric and Druid can take over front-line melee. Between 2nd level and 6th level, the Fighter (or Barbarian, or Paladin, or whatever) is pretty useful... but not absolutely necessary.

Do you all think this is doable? Perhaps any suggestions you would make? I prefer having a druid rather than a fighter in my party because I think a fighter is not worth it, more dead weight than anything else. Also a druid brings much more to the party as opposed to fighter who just stands there taking hits, which an intelligent opponent can easily bypass/overcome.

A Cleric with a decent Str and Con and the War domain can handle the party's face-stabbing needs for quite a while. Note that a Cleric really only needs to start with a 15 Wisdom to benefit from his full spell list, so it's quite possible to make a very passable mundane fighting Cleric who remains a fully functional spellcasting Cleric.

Heck, a high-Con Rogue (with Weapon Finesse) or high Str+Con Rogue (without) can dish a LOT of damage, especially if his fragile butt is being healed by both a Cleric and a Druid.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Dandu]

The Fighter class is advertised as being able to have his ability to fight (derived from many combat feats) available all day, as opposed to spellcasters who have a spells/day limit, whereas a melee Cleric will not be able to have as many combat maneuvers available.

When the spellcasters have run out of resources, a Fighter can still keep going at full power.

For me "full power" for a Fighter tends to be somewhat less than impressive and I don't place much value on the class as a result.

Heck, a high-Con Rogue (with Weapon Finesse) or high Str+Con Rogue (without) can dish a LOT of damage, especially if his fragile butt is being healed by both a Cleric and a Druid.

Polymorph him into a Hydra and watch the Sneak Attacks stack up.

 

[Alexander123]

Thanks, yes that was my question. I wanted to dispense with the fighter.

I don't place much value on the class either for the same reason.

 

[Alexander123]

Should I change my animal companion from a polar bear to anything else? Does summoning a polar bear from a scroll of SNA V count as having "seen" a polar bear?

 

[Dandu]

How are you getting a polar bear at 1st level?

 

[Alexander123]

I was thinking ahead to fourth level when I would be able to get it, I have a wolf at first level.

 

[Dandu]

The Polar Bear is a 10th level Druid Animal Companion.