Why D&D is slowly cutting its own throat.

Sholari said:
Anyone can slap together a homebrew and there is nothing to ensure any level of quality, so you are really only going to get the product of the GMs skill. I would say that most GMs out there aren't as good as they think they are.
Well. Okay, there's probably some element of truth in this.
Sholari said:
For a published adventure there tends to be a higher level of quality control, depending on the level of investment required and the sophistication of the publisher. For PDFs they are a lot easier to put out there and so they are not much better that what people can put together as a homebrew. For something like Dungeon magazine there is a lot more of a quality control and you are essentially competing against a bunch of other potential authors to get published.
Having a professional editor or two review the work is unquestionably a benefit.
Sholari said:
For those people who have sworn off published adventures I would say they have probably never been through a good quality published adventure or the GM just doesn't know how to run a published adventure very well.
I would be careful about making such a broad and unfounded judgement in this regard. I've run a grand total of two published adventures in my life: one was a little-known gem called The Lost Abbey of Calthonwey and the other was the G/D/Q series - both are excellent adventures, I had no problem running them, and my most critical audence, my players, said they enjoyed the experience.

That said, I've been told many times over the years by players that they enjoy my homebrew adventures and settings as well - it's never been suggested to me that I should try published modules instead, at least until now. ;)

Personally I don't think that professional designers and writers have the market on imagination cornered simply by virtue of the fact that they get paid for what they produce. I think there are more than a few GMs out there who could be published if they were willing to devote the time and energy to developing the writing discipline and with a little good editing assistance. Lest we forget, Eberron, the Realms, and Greyhawk all started off as "somebody's homebrew."

Forgive me, bu you still haven't answered by question, Sholari - you've described why you think professionally published modules are better than homebrews, but you haven't mentioned anything about your personal experience in this regard. I'm guessing you've been through both published and HB adventures and settings - what in particular made the former superior to the latter?
 

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The Shaman said:
Forgive me, but you still haven't answered by question, Sholari - you've described why you think professionally published modules are better than homebrews, but you haven't mentioned anything about your personal experience in this regard. I'm guessing you've been through both published and HB adventures and settings - what in particular made the former superior to the latter?

Well here is my personal experience. The best campaign I played in was a homebrew, because the individual was particuraly talented. However, the typical homebrew I've played in seems to be fairly devoid of asthetic detail, more simplistic, less imaginative, and you can see the plot coming from a mile away. When a couple of these not-so-good GMs started filling in the gaps with published material it improved their games substantially. I'd say that there are 5% of GMs out there that are truly talented and they should not be using published adventures, because they can deliver a better end product, but the other 95% would be better served by integrating the quality of people more talented than them.
 


The Shaman said:
Having a professional editor or two review the work is unquestionably a benefit.
I think the real "benefit" is that a bad adventure won't ever get by a good editor/publisher. That's how the "real" publishing industry has always worked -- as a filter.
 

mmadsen said:
I think the real "benefit" is that a bad adventure won't ever get by a good editor/publisher. That's how the "real" publishing industry has always worked -- as a filter.
That's certainly one step, but an editor can also tighten up hazy concepts - writing anything usually puts you too close to the material to sit back and say, "That's not as clear as it could be," which I've always found to be very helpful. Editors also clear up typos, loose threads, and so on.

Of course, I've seen some real [expletive that means the same thing as faeces] published by 'reputable' gaming publishers, so there are no guarantees.
 

Sholari said:
I'd say that there are 5% of GMs out there that are truly talented and they should not be using published adventures, because they can deliver a better end product,...


Thank you, sir. You're quite kind to say so...


;)
 

Wow, huge thread thusfar. Dozens of very good points.

A WotC rep once told me, "This is the same company that puts out a new edition of Magic every two years." Several people have admitted that D&D 4 is already pretty much on its merry way, possibly next year. In short, the corporate muckitty-mucks see a new edition as a constant refreshment of their intellectual property. New core rules/base system changes sell books, although the paradigm may shift when D&D 4.0 arrives.

Module writing is, IMO, dead at WotC. Even the RPGA is drying up when it comes to modules. The thing is, most DM's end up modifying pre-packaged mods on some level anyway. More often than not, I just find it easier to write my own material because it takes less time and caters to my PC's more closely. If you like modules, Necromancer games and Goodman Games are putting out a lot of exciting stuff right now.

Part of the module problem also lies in that WotC, going back as far as the old TSR days, does not/ will not accept solicitations for adventure material unless you are a well-published author or have lots of RPGA clout. Even Dungeon magazine is cutting back on modules, becoming more of a DM's magazine. Unfortunately, the last round of published modules WotC did (i.e. Standing Stone, etc,) were not resounding financial successes. Yes, they have done some Eberron modules, but those are to support that setting. Hasbro has basically forced WotC out of the module-writing business because the numbers just aren't there in all likelihood and they aren't in any hurry to accept new submissions.

The drive that prompted the setting search that gave us Eberron is still alive and well today. New worlds, even new game systems are starting to sprout up all over the industry. Take a look at Secrets of Zi'Ran, the new Warhammer FRP, and Deathstalker 2 for examples. People are starting to crave new, exciting fantasy realms, which means D&D is again starting to leave some of us flat.

I suspect much of this comes from the fact, and I've said this for years, that Greyhawk, FR, etc are still very much been-there, done-that gaming worlds. While definitely not boring, they are not exactly new-gamer friendly because of their incredibly long lineage and ludicrously powerful NPCs. A new setting needs unexplored territory to be viable.

Eberron is over-hyped. I think much of Eberron's success is due to the fact that we're constantly being told that it's a huge success by WotC's Marketing department and it's easy to be a success when the majority of the current effort is being directed toward that product line.

While I'm not the world's biggest GURPS fan, as a generic engine, it does do one thing exceptionally well- It branches into every kind of gaming style, setting and genre almost effortlessly. IF D&D is going to continue to thrive, the people at WotC need to learn that lesson. They not only need to start coming up with new fantasy settings, but branch out into other settings as well. While they have half-heartedly attempted this with D20 Modern, they need to put some serious effort into some new settings.

Oh, and how many of us would like to see them do something with the STAR WARS RPG??? I'm not trying to be a troll, but I wish WotC would focus a little less on miniatures and a little more on writing RPG's. These days it seems a lot of very brilliant, talented game designers at WotC are getting thrown at every project but RPG's. What made Dragonlance, FR, Ravenloft, Planescape, Star Frontiers, Top Secret, Gamma World and so many other game settings a resounding success- they had never been done before. Why? Because the writers at (then) TSR were encouraged to come up with new ideas, and someone was willing to take a chance on it making money. Stagnation leads to profit loss as much as any bad idea. (Just ask anyone who owned GURPS Russia and remembers SJG declaring bankruptcy.) The main point of this thread rings very true. WotC is likely headed for extinction at Hasbro because they're not doing anything new. Not evolving.

In closing, I think what would bring the industry out of its current "funk" is a NEW well-supported D&D fantasy setting that appeals to new gamers and old veterans alike. I think we all need a good dose of new, unexplored RPG territory.
 

To be fair, when you think of published modules, they are going to be a lot cleaner than something I write for myself. At least hopefully. There are some truly bad ones out there, but, on the whole, most are decent. My adventures tend to be the same as the prep that was posted a couple of pages ago. Shorthand notes for what I think will happen, some notes on critters and treasure. That's about it. Hardly professional quality. But they don't need to be. I know my players, I know what they'll like and I have a pretty good idea what I need to do to get it done.

I use published modules and I use homebrew. I've never really noticed a huge difference in my player's reactions to either. If they like the adventure, they like it, whether I wrote it or some other guy did. My goal is to find adventures that they like. I couldn't give two figs about where it comes from.

While I don't play Eberron, could it possibly be that the success of the setting is because this is the first time WOTC has put its full weight behind something that isn't just a reprint? I mean, for the past five years or so, most of the campaign books that have come out of WOTC have simply built on existing campaigns - primarily FR. We know that WOTC employs some very talented writers and letting them finally stretch their legs and develop a completely new setting that isn't tied around the great, huge anchor that is FR might be a reason that new people are buying the setting.

I mean, if people weren't following FR by now, they never will. But, with a completely new setting, now they can draw on the entire market instead of catering to a section that likes the Realms.

Just a thought.
 

Astraldrake said:
...Several people have admitted that D&D 4 is already pretty much on its merry way, possibly next year.

Do you have specific sources, please?

People are starting to crave new, exciting fantasy realms, which means D&D is again starting to leave some of us flat.

However, people always come back to D&D. It's natural and expected for people to get tired of the same genre all the time, and drift to other things is inevitable. The majority of players, however, are still either sticking with D&D, or will likely return to it within 6 months or so; it's the cycle I've noticed on these very boards over the years, as well.

Eberron is over-hyped. I think much of Eberron's success is due to the fact that we're constantly being told that it's a huge success by WotC's Marketing department...

I disagree; Eberron is good because it's good; looking over at the WotC forums and here, one finds lots of gamers speaking out about how it's reinvigorated their D&D gaming, and how much they enjoy its setting. Not all of it is good, however; I returned Races of Eberron because its amount of new information was surprisingly small, and the rest was filled in with new PrC's and feats. The Core Book and Sharn, however, are excellent products.

Oh, and how many of us would like to see them do something with the STAR WARS RPG???

*raises hand*

It does sadden me that there's a brand-new hot movie out, and not one product tie-in has been announced other than minis.

In closing, I think what would bring the industry out of its current "funk" is a NEW well-supported D&D fantasy setting that appeals to new gamers and old veterans alike. I think we all need a good dose of new, unexplored RPG territory.

I disagree on those grounds, because NOTHING will appeal to old gamers and new alike universally; too disparate taste between the two in my opinion.
 

Henry said:
*raises hand*

It does sadden me that there's a brand-new hot movie out, and not one product tie-in has been announced other than minis.

I'm still waiting on August Hahn to pass down some information on the fate of Living Force, btw.

Cheers!
 

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