Why didn't Eberron click?

[Psion]

I don't mind the crunch ratio in Eberron. It just doesn't leap out of the book and scream "PLAY ME!" the way that Scarred Lands and Midnight did.

Dunno why. It looks decent enough.

 

[Mystery Man]

I don't mind the crunch ratio in Eberron. It just doesn't leap out of the book and scream "PLAY ME!" the way that Scarred Lands and Midnight did.

Subjectivity being what it is, I did not hear those screams. As far as Eberron goes, it took my players to convince me to run it. Sometime. Money and my limited amount of it being what it is, there's a long list of books that are ahead before I get it though. Subtlety, being what it is, not one of my players picked up on my huge hints about my upcoming (now past) birthday. Ah well.

 

[Quasqueton]

Were you expecting it to encompass everything that came before, such as OA and Savage Species, or just make a world where the core was applied? There's no question that Eberron isn't either of those, I think. I would argue it's "D&D, making sense and working smoothly in one world", but I think that full sentence is unobtainable, myself. D&D, on it's face, is full of logical fallacies that would require convulted answers to explain away, IMHO.

I was sort of expecting there to be built-in reasons or hooks for the possibility of everything (officially) D&D. If a Player wanted to play a samurai, I expected Eberron to accomodate him -- "There's an 'oriental' culture over there, and it is quite possible for those people to be found in this land." If a Player wanted to play a minotaur, I expected Eberron to accomodate him - "There's a 'monstrous' nation over there, and it is quite possible for those creatures to be found in this land." If a Player wanted to play a core elf wizard, I expected Eberron to accomodate him - "The elves live all throughout this world, just like it says in the PHB."

If a DM didn't want/have OA, then the oriental culture "over there" could be either ignored or assumed to be full of core fighters and wizards with a different look. If a DM didn't want/have SS, then the monstrous nation "over there" could be ignored, or used as a place for the core PCs to go adventure. And for the elf wizard character, the Player should be able to play right out of the PHB, without having to read about the strange/new race in Eberron that just uses the elf racial mechanics.

It seems to me, from reading all the threads about the setting, Eberron didn't make everything D&D fit in it. It took everything D&D and twisted it into something completely new. Eberron elves are not "D&D" elves. Eberron halflings are not "D&D" halflings. They seem to be new races, just using the elf and halfling mechanics. I mean, Darksun halflings are "D&D" halflings mechanically, but they are completely different creatures in flavor. Same with what I'm seeing of Eberron.

As for no more sub-races of elves in Eberron -- it seems that the elves of Eberron *are* a subrace in flavor, but just stick to the core mechanics. Would a race described as chaotic sea-going folk be "dwarves" just because they use the D&D dwarf race mechanics? Or would they be something else in feel, even if the campaign setting called them "dwarves"?

For the record, I am not complaining about the existance of Eberron. I'm not even really complaining. I'm just saying it isn't what I expected. Eberron seems to be just another "different" setting for the D&D game -- but not a "D&D" setting.

Eh. Although I was disappointed, I'll say up front: its not like I'm offended or anything. Its just not my cup of tea. Neither was Darksun or Ravenloft.

Quasqueton

 

[charlesatan]

I echo this sentiment exactly. I also expected the same treatment of Eberron and it was my main motivation for getting the book. There is no doubt that Eberron is a well-done setting and an excellent place to adventure on many fronts but I really, really, really wanted tie-ins and direct links to previous published WotC materials (such as Region X is where the prestige classes Y and Z from the book Complete V are common. Add options for those folk who don't own those books. Continue to next region). I would also have liked to see a nation of desmodu, abeil and all the other races from the MM2 and FF. Put some slaadi and rilmani in there somewhere even if they only get a bit part. You get the idea. It's a big world. Someone's got to furnish it (with apologies to IKEA).

While Eberron certainly doesn't have a clear-cut place to put in every monster from every WotC supplement, there is the Mournland where you can draw the occassional "fluke" monster (i.e. out of the ordinary). I also liked its description of the "other planes" and it does give a list of creatures from the MM, MM2, and the unreleased MM3 and where they fit in (with regards to those planes).

 

[kigmatzomat]

I grabbed the copy, sat down in a comfy chair, read for an hour, then put it back. It had utterly failed to spark any excitement.

Thing is, I don't understand why.

Ehhh, I've already played Earthdawn (http://earthdawn.lrgames.com). I've got weird elves and naturalist orcs, flying ships, mystic gateways and a strange religion. I have action points (Karma) and Artificers (Smiths) and the use of undead without always being labeled evil (nethermancer) and tons of other things.

So bleh. I don't love d20 so much that I'd bother running a variant of Earthdawn with the system.

 

[Faraer]

From outside, Eberron looks like a collection of gimmicks. I'm quite sure Keith Baker made it more than that, but I'd have to read the whole book to be sure, and find if I like the gestalt, and the visible gimmicks by themselves aren't enough to grab me in (why would I want to play a golem? to use Kitsune's example) when there are so many secondary worlds I haven't got into but know are good and have a hunch I'll like, within the RPG field and outside. I don't like the aesthetic of the art, and I'm put off by the world being written to match a ruleset, rather than vice versa.

 

[Mr Gone]

Were I not running my own game world, I would be very tempted to run Eberron. I appreciate that it trys to address the effect that magic would have on a culture and society for the average citizen instead of just adventurers and power NPCs.

 

[Flyspeck23]

I've been playing D&D for about 15 years, and this is the first setting in a long time that has sparked any interest besides "what crunchy bits can I get out of it"?

My sentiments exactly.

So bleh. I don't love d20 so much that I'd bother running a variant of Earthdawn with the system.

I've played Earthdawn too, but I don't see too many similarities. That's just me, of course

 

[Brakkart]

Well I'm not going to be buying the setting. I spent a couple hours in the FLGS and was thoroughly unimpressed with it. It just strikes me as a lot of cool ideas thrown together without that much thought put into it. It is a huge melting pot of stuff. I can understand why many will like it, as it has everything, but to me thats a weakness or at the least poor editing. Nothing really leapt out at me and grabed my attention, and as several have mentioned already the setting does not incoporate support for psionics, it just doesn't make it difficult to add in psionics.

I'm going to stick with the settings I have: Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, Freeport and GI Joe (well Spycraft, but I'm collecting the books to run a GI Joe campaign with them cos I think the system is well suited to that).

 

[mercucio]

Ebercr*p

Heya.

<RANT>
I'll be honest with you, IMHO the reason Eberron didn't click is because it is pretty much generic rehash of standard D&D material is a less-than-inspired setting. Let's be honest, there isn't a lot interesting material here. Greedy gnomes, spiritual goblinoids, ect aren't exactly fresh, new, and exciting twists. Changing the preconceptions of existing races has been done already *cough* Dark Sun *cough*.

The new races, warforged, shifters, and changelings are not that inspiring, mainly because they are just variations on exisiting creature types.

The artificer was almost cool, but misses the point somewhere along the way.

The feats aren't anything special, with the exception of the dragon-marked feats and I'm not real excited by them or the so-called "Prophecy" they respresent.

The spells? What spells--pretty much 8 pages of variations on a handful of spells (i.e. inflict/repair x damage, ect), and a couple of poorly thought spells--detoxify and feast of champions are two offenders that come to mind.

Let us not for the "Prophecy" which at first glance seemed really cool, but upon further examination shows itself to be a constantly evolving thing (almost as if the developers had no idea what it was other something 'cool') that no one but dragons can really understand because it takes hundreds if not thousands of years to catalog? How is that supposed to really inspire the characters, or we the money-paying public, if it is so vague it does not easily lend itself to integration into the campaign.

In short, read it thoroughly first. I certainly feel I wasted my $40 and probally the lamest setting I have seen yet for D&D/d20.
</RANT>

- A very disgruntled Mercucio

p.s. The only admirable things I found in the book was the Aerenal and the Undying Court; and the Mournlands--those is fricking cool--but not cool enough to waste $40 on.