Why Do Clerics Have More Spells Per Day Than Wizards?

[irdeggman]

So friggin' what? You just pick an appropriate ethos to match the cleric you were going to play anyway.

Well - good clerics can't cast evil spells. Good wizards can. Good clerics who perform evil acts (assuming that their deity is good it is logical that this would be against the deity's code of conduct) will become (or at least in in danger of becoming if this is a consistent behaviour) ex-clerics (see listed penalties for that) as well as being subject to an alignment shift.

A good wizard who performs evil acts is subject to an alignment change but no loss of class abilities.

So it can very well be a big deal depending on how well the group is role-playing.

 

[Voadam]

I had never done an in-depth level by level side by side comparison before. I thought the clerics basically got the same number as specialist wizards with the difference being domain vs. specialization for the bonus spells. Learn something new every day.

 

[Storyteller01]

Clerics are broken? That seems like a pretty good reason.

I have a burning little hatred for 3ed clerics, so I at least always keep their deity in mind. I wouldn't hesitate to yoink something here or there for misuse. I'm not sure I would directly change anything about the class, though, except to remove heavy armor proficiency. I think that particular ability does not belong, except on the warrior-priest (fighter/cleric).

How do you handle to 'I don't need a god! My faith in a cause/crusade/alignment/etc will power me!' crowd? Seems rather open to abuse, even if you set standards before hand.

 

[Crust]

Because they pray... PRAY! That's right they pray... PRAY! They have to pray just to make it today!

 

[Warren Okuma]

Just curious.

In comparison to the spontaneous casters, the Favoured Soul & Sorcerer have the same number of spells per day.

Is there any reason?

Because the Wizards of the Coast hath so declared.

 

[GreatLemur]

When building characters for the game, the DM says "who's playing what?"
First player "Fighter"
Second "Wizard"
Third "Damn, so its either the thief of the cleric...."
First player "dude, do the right thing."
Third "You own me, fine, I'll play the cleric."

Seriously, though, does it really ever go that way? I can see how rogues need awesome sneak attack goodness to make up for the nightmare that is the oldschool trap-finding role, but healing and buffing other party members doesn't seem so boring to me.

How do you handle to 'I don't need a god! My faith in a cause/crusade/alignment/etc will power me!' crowd? Seems rather open to abuse, even if you set standards before hand.

Yeah, and under what I'd call "normal" circumstances, conduct restrictions aren't anything like a real balancing factor.

 

[Warren Okuma]

So let's say I gave the cleric a spells per day progression like the wizard, but in return I allowed them to use their turn undead ability to heal 1d6/level damage in a 30 ft radius. Would it be unbalanced, balanced, or... overbalanced?

I think that would work. Actually, a very simple fix would be to allow clerics an (SU) ability to Cure Minor Wounds and then give them a wizard's spell progression. Thus, the cleric can heal everyone to full, at a rate of 10 hp/minute all day long, but, loses a lot of in combat healing.

Honestly though, it's the "in combat" healing that's important. It doesn't really matter how long it takes to heal out of combat, since you aren't in danger of dying. However, you REALLY need healing in combat, particularly at higher levels when creatures can drop you from full to dead in one round of full attacks.

I think you would find that even giving them a healing ability, they are still going to have a number of healing spell memorized because of this fact. Which means that the more specific spells get cast even less.

Something to remember is that, while clerics do have some combat spells, none of their spells come even close to the versatility of a wizard's. Look at alter self. What secind level cleric spell can give me a fly, climb or swim speed? Plus the abilty to breathe underwater? Plus natural attacks?

I sometimes concentrate my firepower on one character (if they have a decent int or wis) forcing the cleric to heal that character. Heal that character of he/she will die. I.e. keep that person on their feet. In a coupla rounds that character will die, depending on the foe. Clerics in my game need to heal during combat because they have to. That's how I balance it. Heal that character or good-bye. I don't need to nerf clerics, because I have tactics.

Edit: For those of you who will use this for the first time, make sure you let the PC's know that you are using this tactic and only with creatures CR-1 or less. Here's how I do it. Let the PC's know that the monster/villain hates/fears/loathes that type of class. "By the dark gods a mage! Kill him!" or demons hate clerics, or magic resistance things hate fighters, or a nobleman that hates thieves... etc... use balance.

I don't use this tactic often, perhaps only once per session, unless you pick on Kobolds... then well...

If I TPK, I add their items to the treasure on a roll 4-6 on D6 rolled for each item.

 

[Hussar]

I sometimes concentrate my firepower on one character (if they have a decent int or wis) forcing the cleric to heal that character. Heal that character of he/she will die. I.e. keep that person on their feet. In a coupla rounds that character will die, depending on the foe. Clerics in my game need to heal during combat because they have to. That's how I balance it. Heal that character or good-bye. I don't need to nerf clerics, because I have tactics.

Edit: For those of you who will use this for the first time, make sure you let the PC's know that you are using this tactic and only with creatures CR-1 or less. Here's how I do it. Let the PC's know that the monster/villain hates/fears/loathes that type of class. "By the dark gods a mage! Kill him!" or demons hate clerics, or magic resistance things hate fighters, or a nobleman that hates thieves... etc... use balance.

I don't use this tactic often, perhaps only once per session, unless you pick on Kobolds... then well...

If I TPK, I add their items to the treasure on a roll 4-6 on D6 rolled for each item.

I use this tactic all the time. Creatures never spread their attacks out. I focus firepower the same way as the players do. Granted, I tend to use one or two big critters, rather than large numbers of small stuff. But, spread out my claw/claw/bite? Never.

24 PC deaths in the World's Largest Dungeon. Combat is lethal.