Why do elves suck?

[Gez]

But to say they were "described" as being exactly like human ears is false.

I did not say that. Elves could have had ear shaped like saxophones in his vision for all I care. I was just saying that I don't remember Tolkien explicitely describing the shape of elven ears in LotR or The Hobbit, so people using "D&D elves have pointy ears" as an argument for "D&D elves are taken from LotR" is highly dubious.

Finally, I don't "love" elves. I merely enjoy the basic concept of a long-lived, intellectually superior race that is elitist.

Intellectually superior? Elves have the same mental stats (Int, Wis, Cha) as goblins and kobolds. And you know how "intellectually superior" those are portrayed...

That's why I said elves weren't fixable. The rules could give them -6 penalty in all ability scores, say their favorite class is barbarian, and explicitely state that they can't cast spells -- and despite that, writers would still rave about ancient elven magic and powerful elven archmages in the settings and adventures.

You did.

Are you implying Dave Freaking Arneson is not the coauthor of OD&D?

 

[Dark Jezter]

Well, if it weren't for the stupidity and diluted relevance of the arguments, I wouldn't mind so much. Ripping on 3.5 elves for a book from the early 90's? Just who is it that has their panties in a bunch? Further, I dispute your point about people coming in here just to argue. I saw the thread title and thought it would be a discussion of why they suck mechanically, something I already professed to believe in my previous post. But, upon seeing the idiotic (and biased) poll options, I felt the need to respond. Everyone has a right to post in a thread if their post is relevant, and trying to tell those who disagree with the OP to just go away and start a new thread is vile. Not only that, but that new thread would just end up as an attack on this thread, creating even more hostility than if people just debated the issue in the thread as mature adults.

Hey, it's not my fault that you read "Why do elves suck?" as "Why do 3.5e elves suck mechanically?" If I were making a thread on that subject, I'd just put it in the rules forum.

I also feel the need to point out the irony of someone advocating discussion as "mature adults" resorting to thinly-veiled personal attacks and apparantly being unable to spot obvious tongue-in-cheek humor.

 

[Desdichado]

Are you implying Dave Freaking Arneson is not the coauthor of OD&D?

Doug Freaking McCrae is doing nothing of the sort.

 

[rgard]

Well, why do elves suck?

It doesn't help that Corellon Larethian wears eye shadow.

 

[Dark Jezter]

It doesn't help that Corellon Larethian wears eye shadow.

Have you seen the illustration of Corellon Larethian in the 3e Deities and Demigods?

He makes Clay Aikan look like John Wayne.

 

[questing gm]

It doesn't help that Corellon Larethian wears eye shadow.

or made Grummsh lost one....

 

[Kae'Yoss]

There were treants (ents), balors (balrogs)

In fact, there were ents and balrogs. And hobbits. The names changed only after they've been told that keeping the names would not be a good idea legally.

or made Grummsh lost one....

Gruums is the god of orcs. The traditional role of orcs is to be slaughtered by the dozen. That was true in Tolkien's stories, and it surely is true in D&D, or at least every game I played in and most I heard about.

Well, if it weren't for the stupidity and diluted relevance of the arguments, I wouldn't mind so much.

Exactly. If it were a mechanical discussion on how the elves got the shaft in 3e and dwarves are far to good and all, there would be no problem. Even if it were just a fun thread, I would not mind. But it's hatemongering and flamebaiting, and should have been locked down 10 minutes after it was started. Since it wasn't locked, we feel responsible of getting rid of the prejudice and blind hatred for a fantasy race and get the facts in.

Ripping on 3.5 elves for a book from the early 90's?

One of the most ridiculous things you can do. It's like hating a mexican guy living today because those aztecs were conducting human mass sacrifices.

Everyone has a right to post in a thread if their post is relevant, and trying to tell those who disagree with the OP to just go away and start a new thread is vile.

I wouldn't say vile. It's like someone with a lame argument telling everyone else to shut up because they can tear through it with ease.

Finally, I don't "love" elves. I merely enjoy the basic concept of a long-lived, intellectually superior race that is elitist.

Not that all elves are elitist. It's, as usual, a vocal minority. Just like a minority of really obnoxious people who like elves are used as an excuse to bash elves.

It doesn't help that Corellon Larethian wears eye shadow.

That picture in Deities and Demigods was an atrocity. It wasn't the only horrible art they put into D&DG and Faiths and Pantheons, and should not be held against the deity/deities in general. The original artists just need to be shot

 

[Dark Jezter]

Exactly. If it were a mechanical discussion on how the elves got the shaft in 3e and dwarves are far to good and all, there would be no problem. Even if it were just a fun thread, I would not mind. But it's hatemongering and flamebaiting, and should have been locked down 10 minutes after it was started. Since it wasn't locked, we feel responsible of getting rid of the prejudice and blind hatred for a fantasy race and get the facts in.

"Hatemongering"? "You feel 'responisble' to get rid of our prejudice and blind hatred"?

Good Lord. You're speaking as if I'd started a thread to attack a real life ethnicity. If you honestly can't distinguish between making fun of a cliche fantasy race and real-life racism, then I think there are bigger issues that need to be addressed than this thread.

Of course, you probably won't see this unless somebody quotes me; as earlier in the thread you advertised the fact that I'm on your ignore list.

 

[Kastil]

"Hatemongering"? "You feel 'responisble' to get rid of our prejudice and blind hatred"?

Good Lord. You're speaking as if I'd started a thread to attack a real life ethnicity. If you honestly can't distinguish between making fun of a cliche fantasy race and real-life racism, then I think there are bigger issues that need to be addressed than this thread.

Of course, you probably won't see this unless somebody quotes me; as earlier in the thread you advertised the fact that I'm on your ignore list.

Why would anyone ignore you?

I think 'teh hate' comes from the same place deep within us that got sick of people playing Drizzt clones. I loved LotR but when every elf fayboi comes out of the closet and skips around playing their character like a Legolas clone, it gets tiresome. Just sayin'.

 

[molonel]

Exactly. If it were a mechanical discussion on how the elves got the shaft in 3e and dwarves are far to good and all, there would be no problem. Even if it were just a fun thread, I would not mind. But it's hatemongering and flamebaiting, and should have been locked down 10 minutes after it was started. Since it wasn't locked, we feel responsible of getting rid of the prejudice and blind hatred for a fantasy race and get the facts in.

I really hope that was written with a HUGE snarky grin and a ginormous dose of self-aware irony.

Otherwise, it scares me just a little bit.

One of the most ridiculous things you can do. It's like hating a mexican guy living today because those aztecs were conducting human mass sacrifices.

Well, except with the difference that Mexicans are real and subject to actual racism, and elves, well, aren't. And aren't. Ya know?