hawkeyefan
Legend
If one really accepts the sorts of arguments you and others are making, then my definition of "real" puts the work in the right place. To make the imagined world facts external to player purposes is to put the world on a "realistic" - physicalist or as it used to be called materialist - metaphysical footing from the perspective of their characters.
World facts that are external to and independent of player goals do not suit the purposes of dramatism. Various posters have been vocal in not seeing the use of such world facts... wondered aloud how such could be of use to player characters. I take that to agree with this point.
Meaning that if there is a form of realism that exists in setups where world facts are adopted without regard to characters, then that is clearly distinct from dramatism. "Realistic" is used to mean many different things: if for some meaning of realistic that meaning is also of use to and present in dramatism (i.e. if you are right for said meaning), then there is nothing about that meaning that makes modes prioritising it distinct from dramatism (beyond said prioritisation, which isn't nothing but is also an easily blurred line.)
Therefore the definitions of "real" worth having must include the one I propose: it has consequences that dramatism has no use for and should reject. The triumvirate of definitions I proposed work collectively; but this is the one that makes the resultant "realism" most distinct.
I don't think we need to worry about realism. I don't think any RPG game or setting seeks to create an implausible world (as noted, there are some exceptions that intentionally try to do so). So trying to determine which is "more realistic" is just pointless.
So I've asked a few times now, if we set that concern aside and then look at what happens in play... how would we describe it? No one's answered that question.
Other than saying "it's more realistic" what do you think sim GMing does? What is the outcome?
I've read something like this apprehension many times now. All I can say is that the externality or independence of the world facts is not intended to thwart players. They form their goals within the context of those facts, just as in real-life we act within the world: reality does not warp around our dramatic needs.
Does your typical day involve more things related to your wants and needs, or totally unrelated things?
I mean, I'm at work right now because I need to be. I'm also chatting here because my work's all done and I have some spare time, so I want to spend it on topics that are interesting to me. Later, my kids will get home from school and I'll chat with them about their day, and then I'll wrap up work. After that, we'll eat dinner. There are likely to be some video games with my son at some point. Then later, my friends are coming over for our Stonetop game.
Obviously something unexpected could happen. But that would be out of the ordinary... my day is pretty much defined entirely by my wants and needs. That's generally how life works.
The idea that we're constantly being bombarded with the unexpected is a bit strange. It seems to rely more on the expectation that the characters in the game are like a wandering group of adventurers.
But that's a strong assumption to make. There are plenty of games where that is not the case. The characters are something else, and have a more specific agenda... so it should not be surprising that the things that happen to them tend to connect to them or their agenda.
That's whoever or whatever process is controlling the NPCs. I should also call attention to the desirability of players conflicting with players in this mode. I don't find it ideal to assume a single harmonious party. Even where player characters are notionally working together, each should think about their character's motives within the world.
Generally, the GM is controlling NPCs. Very likely, they've also determined the NPCs goals and outlook and resources. So even if they use a dice roll or similar method to determine a response, the GM is still very involved in how the NPC may react.
I'm not sure what this has to do with PC motivations, but I agree with you that we shouldn't always assume they're aligned. Certainly, it would seem more realistic for people who are close to one another to have conflicting agendas at times, or to disagree about the best course of action. Yet many folks who are citing realism as their goal will readily admit that one of their expectations for play is that the players always act cooperatively in a group.