Why do RPGs have rules?

The inference from 5e D&D is incomplete to RPGs are incomplete is not sound.
I know! And if you look at my posts in this thread, that's why you'll see me saying things like "AFAICT it's not possible to design an RPG that cannot deliver you to an ill-defined game state". (Paraphrased, but I'm pretty sure the "AFAICT" is in there literally.)

I've never seen one that could provide the illusion of infinite detail without the GM needing to make things up, but I agree that 5E's gaps prove nothing about the general case, and I don't believe I ever claimed they did.
 

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In short, a RPG with "rule zero" adopts as the preeminent lusory means for achieving the prelusory goal that the GM is permitted to author the shared fiction.
A follow-up on this:

There is a "prelusory goal" for which the lusory means of the GM is permitted to author the shared fiction is, in fact, the most efficient means: namely, the goal of having the GM tell the other players a story.

It therefore seems plausible that, on Suits's account of what a game is, a RPG with rule zero isn't a game at all. Because in a RPG with rule zero, it seems that there is no "voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles" (the quote is from Suits, as per Lusory attitude - Wikipedia).

As opposed to a game in Suits's sense, RPGing which adopts as its preeminent means the GM is permitted to author shared fiction seems to just be GM story telling via the most efficient means possible.
 

This is the problem with Rule Zero. It's jargon used by long time gamers to reference a bunch of things to which they've already been exposed. I know some games actually have a rule which does what Rule Zero does (or at least, does what some consider Rule Zero does), but very often that's not the case. Some games even intentionally avoid such rules.

Better to ditch Rule Zero as shorthand and instead just talk about the actual rule or the intended goal.
If online discussions are any metric, the real Rule 0 seems to be that Rule 0 can authorize absolutely anything and everything anyone says it can authorize regardless of what the rule, if present at all, actually does say or authorize. It feels a bit like a rule that authorizes the person to both move the goal posts and then pretend that they haven't been moved at all.
 

If online discussions are any metric, the real Rule 0 seems to be that Rule 0 can authorize absolutely anything and everything anyone says it can authorize regardless of what the rule, if present at all, actually does say or authorize. It feels a bit like a rule that authorizes the person to both move the goal posts and then pretend that they haven't been moved at all.

I think part of the divide in these conversations is how much faith people put in rule zero. And the problem is for one portion of the hobby, it is the thing that defines what makes an RPG work, for another it is the thing that makes them dysfunctional.
 

I think part of the divide in these conversations is how much faith people put in rule zero. And the problem is for one portion of the hobby, it is the thing that defines what makes an RPG work, for another it is the thing that makes them dysfunctional.
IMHO, I big part of the divide stems from what @hawkeyefan said in their post. Rule 0 is less of a singular "it" or a "the thing" at all, but, rather, Rule 0 is a series of various rules and guidelines that all get collectively thrown together into an obscured mass and treated as a singular, monolithic rule that people appeal to for what seemingly amounts to... well...
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IMHO, I big part of the divide stems from what @hawkeyefan said in their post. Rule 0 is less of a singular "it" or a "the thing" at all, but, rather, Rule 0 is a series of various rules and guidelines that all get collectively thrown together into an obscured mass and treated as a singular, monolithic rule that people appeal to for what seemingly amounts to... well...
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But I think that goes to my point. A portion of the hobby perceives rule zero as you do, for reasons like Hawkeye cites, another portion perceives it as a core concept that makes RPGs what they are. That is a difficult gulf to bridge.
 

But I think that goes to my point. A portion of the hobby perceives rule zero as you do, for reasons like Hawkeye cites, another portion perceives it as a core concept that makes RPGs what they are. That is a difficult gulf to bridge.

Right, but even beyond that... I don't even know what people mean specifically by Rule Zero. In this thread, folks who have been advocating for it seem to actually be talking at times about slightly different things.

If we asked "what is Rule Zero?" we'd get different answers.

And for anyone who isn't already familiar with the concept, it's kind of useless, right? A new player might turn to the books to find it, and in most cases, they wouldn't find it.
 

But I think that goes to my point. A portion of the hobby perceives rule zero as you do, for reasons like Hawkeye cites, another portion perceives it as a core concept that makes RPGs what they are. That is a difficult gulf to bridge.
There are people who believe that Sinbad starred in a movie called Shazaam and there are people who think the former are misremembering things. That too may be a difficult gulf to bridge, but I don't think that this means that they are equally valid positions.
 

Baker's suggestion is that the only reason for wanting such less efficient means is so as to achieve the unwelcome and unwanted in the shared fiction. My OP suggests some other possible reasons too.
Great post. Suits also provides a shorter definition to explain what he means

"playing a game is the voluntary effort to overcome unnecessary obstacles."

In asking about "RPGs" I think you are asking about multiple different games, with players choosing each game in accord with or due to their adoption of some prelusory goals. Once the participants are gathered into and commence play it is reasonable to expect their prelusory goals to be in accord, although that isn't guaranteed. The griefer, for example, in World of Warcraft seems to be playing the same game while having divergent prelusory goals. The cheater is often discussed (in game studies) in terms that would make them seem to share prelusory goals with other players, while having a divergent lusory attitude (one that might be characterised as impaired.)

To ask "Why do RPGs have rules?" with that in mind seems to ask something like "Given our purposes of play why is it better justified to accept some rules over others?" Or "For what purposes of play are the rules we accept best justified?" Does that sound right? Why do RPGs each offer their particular lusory means, as embodied in their rules? The general answer might then be, because players who might feel a sense of kinship under a common banner of RPGers all have differing prelusory goals informing their preference of game texts. (I'm not saying your OP doesn't cover it: more attempting to restate it.) One potential area for further scrutiny is of course that it is principles as well as rules that form the lusory means.

The referee of a football game is obviously not a player in Suits's sense. They don't share the prelusory goal. And they do not hold themselves bound by the rules (the lusory means). They are bound by different rules, rules of professional conduct in the refereeing of a sports game. In this way, the role of being a referee - at least as far as rules are concerned - has more in common with being a police officer, a lawyer, a doctor, etc, than it does with being a player of the game.

Through this lens, we see straight away that (for instance) while a late nineteenth century Prussian free kriegspiel referee has a lot in common with a football referee, a contemporary RPG GM has little in common with them, as the contemporary GM is a player, share the prelusory goal with the other players, and has agreed to adopt the lusory means that will enable that goal (ie a certain sort of shared fiction creation) to be achieved.
The important question being raised is I believe if and how one decides to differentiate between a view of GM as referee and a view of GM as player. One lense is to entertain all of the possibilities equally that GM is a) not a player, b) a player, c) at times a player and at other times not a player, d) in ways a player and in other ways not a player.

With that in mind then, different views of GM will lead to different ideas about proper GMing. A group that view GM as referee are putting GM outside of the group of players and do not expect them to be similarly limited. A group that view GM as player go on to reason as you have. The only disagreement I have with your remarks is the implication that all "contemporary" RPG GMs are - solely - players. The game text of 5e explicitly assigns DM the function of serving as "referee" and states what that function is, which includes guaranteeing that everyone follows the rules, saying how the rules apply, and filling in gaps in rules (this last is actually left up to each group to decide how they go about it). The 5e text taken literally probably best supports d) in the list above. It's also very clear that this is not the only way and indeed many other contemporary games do not single GM out as other than a player.

To the extent that DM is referee (at the times when, or in relation to the demands of play in consideration of which, they are serving that function) they may follow principles of proper conduct which as you lay out need not include sharing the prelusory goals or accepting the lusory means. They might conduct their function in accord with principles of proper DMing much as any referee does.

In the passage I've quoted, Suits say nothing expressly about making rules up as one goes along. He was almost certainly quite familiar with Hart's discussion of the game of "scorer's discretion". So the most natural way I would expect him to approach this is to deny that rules are made up as one goes along: rather, a proper statement of the rules includes a statement of the permissions that the "rule zero" wielder enjoys. If we take "rule zero" at face value then I think the natural conclusion is that the Suits-ian description of a RPG with a rule zero is going to look much as Vincent Baker describes it here (I've elided Baker's aesthetic judgements as best I can, which are separate from his description of the process):

with task resolution . . . whether you [the non-GM player] succeed or fail, the GM's the one who actually resolves the conflict. The dice don't, the rules don't; you're depending on the GM's mood and your relationship and all those unreliable social things the rules are supposed to even out.​
Task resolution, in short, puts the GM in a position of priviledged authorship.​

In short, a RPG with "rule zero" adopts as the preeminent lusory means for achieving the prelusory goal that the GM is permitted to author the shared fiction.
Perhaps I have not put it so well, but this is the direction I have been travelling.

If GM is viewed as player (as possibly implied in the quote?), then in that case rule zero (if in play and held by this GM-player) could be like the exception made for goalkeepers in football - that they may handle the ball - and assessed for its merits on that basis. In regard to that possibility, freedom to form and modify rules during play doesn't contain any in-built restraint from disrupting Suits' construction, unless there are further rules or principles that limit the rule-forming-and-modifying to only such as continue to present unnecessary obstacles etc. I see this as similar to what Baker is saying. Remedies seen in many contemporary game texts do indeed include writing rules and principles that constrain that power (or regulate against it, including by silence.)

If on the other hand GM is viewed as referee, a word that has and continues to appear in some game texts, then rule zero can be assessed differently, i.e. in terms of how well it enables GM to succeed in the proper refereeing of a game as open-ended as TTRPG. When I read posts praising rule zero, they often seem to me to be made more from this view than the other.
 
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Right, but even beyond that... I don't even know what people mean specifically by Rule Zero. In this thread, folks who have been advocating for it seem to actually be talking at times about slightly different things.

If we asked "what is Rule Zero?" we'd get different answers.

And for anyone who isn't already familiar with the concept, it's kind of useless, right? A new player might turn to the books to find it, and in most cases, they wouldn't find it.
Rather than define rule zero, I will define what makes RPGs operate the way they do for me. At the very least, it’s the first thing I observed about them: the ability trace an existing system of rules and adjust, change, ignore or modify as needed to fit what the players are trying to do. I think you can have as complex or as simple a system as you want gif RPGs, but without that flexibility to creatively apply or even ignore rules, to tend to what is the primary focus of play, I would say the experience loses the magic of TTRPGs for me
 

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