Why do so many people refer to Forgotten Realms as "High Magic?"

[Numion]

I run a earlier incarnation of Greyhawk, escewing much of the later material. Basically I stick to the original boxed set, some of the early modules, and the stuff printed by Gygax in Dragon. The Dragon material I stray from considerably. What other people do with the setting is their business. That's always been kinda the point of Greyhawk, IMHO.

Thats kinda my point too. In FR the perceived shortcomings usually never leave messageboard threads. In a short survey in WotC boards (and elsewhere) I've seen close zero threads about a DM overshadowing PCs with Elminster/Drizzt/other FR npc, but I've seen hundreds of threads about DMs abusing the game with their own pet npcs. Lots of people play FR, so it all depends how you use it. El isn't isn't written to be game-wrecking.

Like you said, the setting, or any setting, is really up to the DM. No two campaigns with different DMs are the same, even with the same published world.

 

[Darkness]

I run a earlier incarnation of Greyhawk, escewing much of the later material. Basically I stick to the original boxed set, ...

That's my take on the FR, basically. 'course, I add any stuff from later books that I find useful.

E.g., there are no Chosen of Mystra in my FR - that stuff just didn't exist back then. Though Elminster and the Seven Sisters do exist, generally. Less powerful, in some cases (I just don't need Elminster to be level 26 or higher - something like level 13-17 is plenty), and the seven sisters are not all sisters but still. Khelben gets to keeps his level, though, or at least most of it.
On the other hand, I have no qualms about putting my own uber-powerful NPCs into the FR if I need to. That's what matters to me in the end - I use or create what I need to and discard or the rest or at least reduce its impact so it doesn't get in the way. (Like, "why isn't Elminster solving this issue? He's 137th level and stuff!")
[/rambling]

 

[ruleslawyer]

Though Elminster and the Seven Sisters do exist, generally. Less powerful, in some cases...
On the other hand, I have no qualms about putting my own uber-powerful NPCs into the FR if I need to. That's what matters to me in the end - I use or create what I need to and discard or the rest or at least reduce its impact so it doesn't get in the way. (Like, "why isn't Elminster solving this issue? He's 137th level and stuff!")
[/rambling]

Well, this is part of the issue that I have with most complaints about the Realms. Most prospective DMs seem to have issues with the fact that the published uber-NPCs shouldn't be there because they want their own uber-NPCs in the mix. To which I say: El and the others are placeholders, in that event. If you want other 35th-level NPCs running around instead, that's your prerogative, but it's nice to know that the setting is written to accomodate the existence of those sorts of Powers.

 

[LGodamus]

on the epic spell thing...does any NPC in any FR book have the feat required for epic spells?.....I haven't seen one...just wonderin

 

[I'm A Banana]

Although it would certainly be a "somewhat higher magic than normal" setting.

That was the entire point of my post. The world aknowledges a higher-than-normal level of magic. Which leads some to call it high magic.

Certainly I don't think this is a *bad* thing. Heck, Eberron sounds even *higher* magic than FR (what with everyday magical architecture and the like), and it sounds delicious.

It's just one of those things that you have to reconcile yourself with....FR is not "standard magic." The writers admit and support it as such. To say otherwise is a house rule. So

 

[Quasqueton]

Adding up all the numbers from the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, the total "official" population of the Flanaes is around 26 million (just counting PHB races).

I also counted up the number of named characters of 15th level or higher: 60. Of these 15+ level characters, 13 are 20+ level.

Ratio of 15+ level characters to total population = 1 : nearly half a million.

Ratio of 20+ level characters to total population = 1 : two million.

What is the population numbers of the Forgotten Realms, and how many high-level characters are named/known in that setting? I’m curious of the comparison.

Quasqueton

 

[Oaken25]

Adding up all the numbers from the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, the total "official" population of the Flanaes is around 26 million (just counting PHB races).

I also counted up the number of named characters of 15th level or higher: 60. Of these 15+ level characters, 13 are 20+ level.

Ratio of 15+ level characters to total population = 1 : nearly half a million.

Ratio of 20+ level characters to total population = 1 : two million.

What is the population numbers of the Forgotten Realms, and how many high-level characters are named/known in that setting? I’m curious of the comparison.

Quasqueton

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141179

"Thomas M. Reid
Member

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, Texas

quote:
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Originally posted by Amon Hok
Does anyone know or care to guess what the total population of all of Toril is? including all races i figure it must be gigantic like in the billions do to the greater deities needing millions of worshipers to be a greater deity. any guesses?
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Page 98 of the FRCS (opening paragraph) states that Faerûn has over 68 million people. So let's extrapolate, with a few assumptions: 1) the rest of Toril's population density is roughly equivalent to Medieval Earth's, and 2) Faerûn's population is roughly equivalent to Medieval Europe/Mediterranean/Middle East, and 3) by "people," we mean humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, and half-elves.

Based on >> this site, << Medieval Europe/Mediterannean/Middle East had a population of 73.5 million people around 1340 A.D. And, based on >> this site, << the population of the entire planet around 1350 A.D. was 300 million people. So, since "over 68 million" is pretty darn close to "73.5 million," I'd say Toril's population is around 275 million people.

Of course, that wouldn't include all the humanoids, who at least double, if not triple, that figure.

Aren't you glad you asked this question?

Thomas
__________________
A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so.

www.thomasmreid.com"

 

[Cbas10]

A common problem in comparing GH and FR is that people dismiss whole parts of GH canon as "it ain't the real greyhawk*", and then nonetheless judge FR by every single one of the X hundred supplements printed for it. I think thats bogus - everything printed for GH counts if it does for FR. Castle Greyhawk all the way, boys!

I don't know if you meant it by this comment, I mean implying that the CoGH boxed set wasn't "in".

* the real greyhawk meaning probably Gygaxs work exclusively

I'd like to give a voice to the current-day players who do not have the gaming experience (read: the decades of gameplay) or the time & money to have access to all of the older original Greyhawk books (many of which are collector's items and can be quite expensive; hardly something that is commonly accessible). As it is, the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer is out of print, but it and FRCS are both 3.0 game books.

In this context, FR certainly appears to be a higher-magic setting. I'm not saying this in a negative sense; rather more of an observation of the comparisons between the books. Since Greyhawk has only seen a core setting book in 3.x, compared to a myriad of FR's regional books as well as a core setting book, I'll just compare core settings.

Forgotten Realms has oddities and obviously massive and epic feats of magic currently active in the setting: City of Shade, Undermountain, Tilverton (or whatever remains), countless metropoli (including 3 on a single island), Waterdeep (over a million inhabitants in a single city indicates magical effects clearly negating the lack of modern sanitation & refrigeration), Magocratic governments, and literal magical caravans full of wizards mass producing magical items.

Greyhawk certainly has a few of these things in common with FR, but rarely (if ever!) to such dizzying hieghts.

[[Not a response to the post I quoted as much of a response to the forum in general;]]

Some people love to put a lot of effort into adding on to a setting, homebrewing a setting, and even rewriting settings. It's all good; the versatility of this game is probably the best feature about it. However, for those players and DMs who log more hours in actually playing than preparing, Forgotten Realms simply does have a larger frequency of magic appearing in the setting and a greater impact of magic upon the setting.

 

[d4]

Waterdeep (over a million inhabitants in a single city indicates magical effects clearly negating the lack of modern sanitation & refrigeration)

well, not necessarily. Rome at the height of her Empire had about a million inhabitants, and they didn't need magic (or modern technology) to keep it going.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Waterdeep (over a million inhabitants in a single city indicates magical effects clearly negating the lack of modern sanitation & refrigeration),

Waterdeep and the surrounding area has over a million residents, but the city of Waterdeep itself only has a population of 132,661.

Source: Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting page 178.