D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Paul Farquhar]

So you're end result here is, because the real world works in x ways, so must fantasy worlds..unless magic.

Well actually, he doesn't. There has been a fundamental avoidance of a core real world logic issue. What do these mighty dwarf warriors EAT?

Anyone who has ever played a CIV type game knows that food production is just as important as combat, and a unit with +10% agriculture is as valuable as a unit with +10% defence.

If you want to ty and apply real world logic, it needs to be applied fairly across all races, no exceptions for short beardy people.

 

[Oofta]

Perhaps assorted skills from adventuring, the experience of which has allowed the to "level up" beyond the capabilities of the basic descriptions of their race.

If I compared how 11th level halfling rogues or bards would protect their villages to how a common gnome would do it, that comparison would be similarly unfair.

Yeah, funny how gnomes have relatively powerful spellcasters just assumed while halflings must set up their communities on the fringes of society in the middle of an open plain only protected by a hedge row. I mean, it's not like a bard with college of creation could just have large rocks animate and walk around to disguise the trail leading into the village or something. Assuming they needed anything more than game trails of course, because we all know that you need carts because halflings are known for setting up trade empires selling peppers grown in their magical greenhouses because they're inherently greedy and must import food because they can't grow their own.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It is noticeable how reasons halflings are bad become increasingly wild and implausible. It smacks at desperation. Look, if you don't like halflings it's fine. You don't have to have them. No justification is required.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Ok seriously. What is the issue? Why not just say the default halfling village is something that only exists in the parts of a setting that are very well settled and orderly.

It seems to me that at this point, the debate is between Team “Let’s replace their lore with something better (or possibly just remove them)” vs Team “Their lore is fine as is”.

Hope that clarifies things.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Right, just re-write human nature. No big deal.

I mean human empires literally waged war, twice, over a single plant. But in DnD they just don't care enough. Because Halflings don't even care that much, and humans care less than that.

And once they waged war over a single hog! The more you know...

 

[Oofta]

It seems to me that at this point, the debate is between Team “Let’s replace their lore with something better (or possibly just remove them)” vs Team “Their lore is fine as is”.

Hope that clarifies things.

Except that there's never any suggestion of what might be "better". It's just "they couldn't survive unless their village is in a peaceful region" is bad for some reason. That and a whole bunch of hyperbole, red herrings, strawman arguments along with every region of every country having hordes of orcs and ogres wandering the countryside far and wide searching for scraps as a base assumption.

They aren't mighty warriors or wizards. Not every race needs to be. Just because they prefer to survive by blending in and avoiding notice doesn't mean they aren't going to defend themselves with the same ferocity (and similar weapons) as any other human commoner farm village.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Except that there's never any suggestion of what might be "better". It's just "they couldn't survive unless their village is in a peaceful region" is bad for some reason. That and a whole bunch of hyperbole, red herrings, strawman arguments along with every region of every country having hordes of orcs and ogres wandering the countryside far and wide searching for scraps as a base assumption.

Now, that’s just not true. I have specifically pointed out to Golarion and @Charlaquin ‘s halflings that have better lore. @tetrasodium included the write-ups of Eberron’s halflings (and I believe he also mentioned the DarkSun halflings). Just a few posts earlier, @Chaosmancer specified that his world has homebrew halflings, though I don’t believe that he has shared their details.

 

[Oofta]

Now, that’s just not true. I have specifically pointed out to Golarion and @Charlaquin ‘s halflings that have better lore. @tetrasodium included the write-ups of Eberron’s halflings (and I believe he also mentioned the DarkSun halflings). Just a few posts earlier, @Chaosmancer specified that his world has homebrew halflings, though I don’t believe that he has shared their details.

Let me rephrase then: 99% of the thread pushback has had nothing to do with how to run them "better".

Besides better is in the eye of the beholder. I don't want halflings that cannabalistic dino riding marauders.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

to defend themselves with the same ferocity (and similar weapons) as any other human commoner farm village.

Which is itself a straw man. Human villages did not defend themselves, if they where attacked the peasants ran away.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I will go even further. I suspect that @Chaosmancer or @tetrasodium would have no issue with the workarounds being proposed: halfling villages being secretive and hidden, halfling gods caring more and being more active in the defense of their people, if it were acknowledged that these were workarounds.

After all, to each their own.