D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Oofta]

Brewing isn't martial
Masonry isnt martial
Metalwork isn't martial
Forges aren't always martial
Deepmining ins't martial

Let's see, martial related: best axes and hammer smiths, your best heavy weapons and armor, most of your good forges*, several magic items.

Not martial related: brewers, stone masons

Of no particular relevance: racial tensions and relationships (applies to all races). Gods impact is setting specific. Not sure what you mean about lost mines.

So like I said, most things are martial I did not say all. In any case I'm done, there's nothing new here other than your personal preference/prejudice.

*I don't remember the last time dwarves were associated with good plows.

 

[Oofta]

Here is the thing though.

The halfling is the guy who stocks the shelves.

But human commoners stock the shelves. Dwarf commoners stock the shelves. Elf Commoners stock the shelves. Triton Commoners stock the shelves.

Well, halflings raise crops!

So do humans. So do elves. So do dwarves. So do Firbolgs. So do Dragonborn.

The idea that the halfling niche is that they are commoners completely barrels into the basic fact that other races have commoners. So either halflings are the commoners for the entire world, or their "niche" is that they are just like every other commoner in the setting.

And ... I still don't care. Have a good one.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

There’s a nice take on halflings on DMs Guild, Book of Bastards.
Stouts = half-dwarf, Lightfoot = half-elf; this ‘halflings’ means half breeds in general rather than a named species. Gnome = half dwarf, half elf, much rarer. Half elves as written don’t exist.

 

[Maxperson]

Again with accusations that I lack the ability to read. All because you want to make a claim that "the Mad Mage" has barred even unintelligent unthinking creatures from venturing to the surface for the common good.

He has. He controls everything. You'd know that if you had the prior versions of Undermountain. The 5e version has less to say, but still makes no mention of any monsters pissing off the city that could annihilate all of Undermountain in a matter of hours if it bent its resources to that task.

Still your claim.

No. No it's not. Pointing out someone else claim is not making the claim itself.

Ah, so we are back to leaving so far away from other civilizations that they can't trade or take things to market. Funny, we were in Cormyr there for a while, and when I look at that map I posted, most of the settlements in there are only a day or two apart, so what? Halflings live further than two days away from anything in there? How? There isn't that much space to be that far out of the way and still be in the kingdom.

Holy Strawman Batman! Never said that they can't trade or take things to the market. In fact, you know that I've said the opposite.

Given the right terrain, half a day can be(can be means only that it can sometimes be, not always be, not any other twisting that you'll come up with) far enough away to be out of the way. You don't have to be 2 days away. The only requirement is that they be in an out of the way location.

At 500 miles across(your number), traveling 8 hours a day at a walking speed of 3 miles per hour. That's 24 miles per day. It would take 20 days to cross Cormyr on foot, which is the method the vast majority of people use.

I mean, France, the entire country, is less than a thousand miles across. You want an empty space the size of FRANCE inside of a Kingdom. That is bonkers.

Nawp! Never said that. Don't put words in my mouth Straw King.

Continuing to call people morons with no evidence or reasoning except that it makes you seem smart. Classy.

LOL Oooooookay. Stating that there is reasoning is a false statement and you know it. And I didn't call you a moron. The moronic necromancer? Sure, but he's not a person. He's an imaginary thing.

Yes, I'm sure the mindless dead stop and consider that they should follow the roads. That's why when the survivors in The Walking Dead are in the forest they are completely safe, everyone knows zombies follow the roads like good citizens.

Show me the Necromancer in charge of the Walking Dead zombies. If you can't, a False Equivalence it is!

Did you even bother to look at Cormyr? Yes, in square miles they can cover 32,000, since that is less than 180 miles by 180 miles. That is a country smaller than the State of Indiana (35,870 miles)

It would only take you 7 1/2 days to walk 180 miles.

 

[Feyfiendmonsterer]

I'm not talking travel.

I could see halflings being big travelers.

I'm talking being an adventurer. Going into a dusty tomb full of deathtraps, monsters, and violent humaniods. I just can't seea normal minded halfling doing that constantly without being dragged or forced to. Same with a race like kobolds who are known for their extreme cowardice.

To me, adventurer is already a weird life choice. So a culture against parts of it seems to be weird if placed at the forefront.


But that is what they are. Excuses.

Humans, elves, gnomes, dwarves, and even orcs don't have to fight their own culture to make sense of them going into the Caves of Doom voluntarily.

It's all lies about Kobolds being cowards and is down mainly to complete and utter inconsistencies with ALL the editions. Kobolds make no sense being evil-they worship ALL Dragons, not just evil ones, it's just that evil ones that'll use them for their own nefarious schemes, which involve them being evil or doing evil things, per se the dragon leader's orders. But neutral Lizard Folk also do this if serving a Dragon of evil nature-they probably have to! Kobolds AREN'T cowardly, they just correctly assume many bigger races will try and harm and enslave them, so they would rather run and hide to survive, rather than stand up to the bullies. For heaven's sake Kobolds are only tiny and can die from a single blow. As actually can the even wimpier Hobbits-and they don't even have the escape route of an underground lifestyle.

Hobbits make no sense to me at all. They worked in "LOTR" but for ultra-specific reasons only and these reasons (for me) completely invalidate them as any kind of playable race or confrontational one. Reason (1) Frodo and pals were NOT alone and made most of the treacherous and highly dangerous journey with Human, Dwarven and Elvish allies, Reason (2) The book was specifically written for the Hobbit to come out on top as that was what the author wanted and above all Reason (3)-there were NO Gnomes AT ALL in any of the Tolkien books!

But their size, their looks and lifestyle are utterly filled by Humans in outreaching villages and Gnomes living in their woodland homes in the boles of trees and celebrating their lifestyle of good food, friends and curiosity, but with an important magical addition to their lives which helps keep them safe from dangerous bigger beings and warring cultures. Added to this, virtually every model I've ever seen of a Hobbit (Halfling) looks utterly like a Gnome. So Hobbits don't really exist outside Tolkien, bless 'em. Above all, one tap and they're dead and they come across as virtually the only D&D 'creation' that is really too Dodo-like for its own good. In other words, way too ill-equipped to survive in such a dangerous world. In the heart of bigger cities, maybe, but in D&D, their most common surroundings seem to be at the edge of fields where they throw noisy parties virtually every day and night. AND in a world where Dragons, Manticores, Perytons and Giant Bloodhawks ply the skies, in a land where Bulettes, Ankhegs, Purple Worms, Earth Elementals and such erupt from the earth honing in on special noise, where the edges of outlying villages are stalked by Lycanthropes, Orcs, Ogres, Trolls, Ettins, Hill Giants, Spriggans, Gnolls, Bugbears, Hobgoblins, Boggards, Giant Insects, and so on, their villages would be utterly cleared of the little tits in minutes, as they, unlike virtually everything else in the world, have no strategy, ability or heads-up to fight back. Hell, they'd likely invite these things TO the feast!

 

[Chaosmancer]

And ... I still don't care. Have a good one.

If you don't care, stop reengaging then. You want to challenge that halflings do have a niche because not everyone needs to be martial, then the least you can do is respond to legit criticism that it seems the halfling niche is to be commoners, and everyone else has commoners too

 

[Oofta]

If you don't care, stop reengaging then. You want to challenge that halflings do have a niche because not everyone needs to be martial, then the least you can do is respond to legit criticism that it seems the halfling niche is to be commoners, and everyone else has commoners too

I'm done responding to you.

 

[Chaosmancer]

He has. He controls everything. You'd know that if you had the prior versions of Undermountain. The 5e version has less to say, but still makes no mention of any monsters pissing off the city that could annihilate all of Undermountain in a matter of hours if it bent its resources to that task.

No. No it's not. Pointing out someone else claim is not making the claim itself.

Holy Strawman Batman! Never said that they can't trade or take things to the market. In fact, you know that I've said the opposite.

Given the right terrain, half a day can be(can be means only that it can sometimes be, not always be, not any other twisting that you'll come up with) far enough away to be out of the way. You don't have to be 2 days away. The only requirement is that they be in an out of the way location.

At 500 miles across(your number), traveling 8 hours a day at a walking speed of 3 miles per hour. That's 24 miles per day. It would take 20 days to cross Cormyr on foot, which is the method the vast majority of people use.

Nawp! Never said that. Don't put words in my mouth Straw King.

LOL Oooooookay. Stating that there is reasoning is a false statement and you know it. And I didn't call you a moron. The moronic necromancer? Sure, but he's not a person. He's an imaginary thing.

Show me the Necromancer in charge of the Walking Dead zombies. If you can't, a False Equivalence it is!

It would only take you 7 1/2 days to walk 180 miles.

You still refuse to engage in evidence.

Now you want to claim that being a mere twelve miles away is far enough that they are "out of the way" but that doesn't work when two towns can be considered "neighbors" when they are 24 miles away in the same terrain. You cannot be closer than their neighbors, and yet be so far out of the way no one will find you, especially if you visit the town on a regular basis.

You want multiple entire villages hidden in the "thousands of miles" of empty terrain you just imagine existed, then accuse me of strawmans when I point out that even a single thousand miles of empty terrain is the size of France. I guess you are deciding to conflate miles and square miles into the same unit, which is preposterous in the extreme.

You call the necromancer a moron with no supporting reasons, he just is because he isn't directly controlling hordes of mindless undead like a puppet master. Remembering I assume that that capability doesn't exist in the game, and would be a homebrew ability, or would rely on lieutenants who can only control a a small handful at a time.

You also use 5e when it suits you, switch to 3e or 2e when 5e doesn't then back again as though all of it doesn't conflict. You'll bring in a specific setting just to dismiss it as soon as it is inconvenient to keep talking about it, only to bring it back when it is convenient once more.

And, once more, you refuse to engage with evidence, citing that it doesn't matter what my evidence is, because halflings have more adventurers than half-elves, so no evidence matters.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I'm done responding to you.

Refusing to engage in the point is refusing to engage in the point. Would it really be any different if @Minigiant or @FrozenNorth asked you the exact same question just because it wasn't me?

 

[Oofta]

Refusing to engage in the point is refusing to engage in the point. Would it really be any different if @Minigiant or @FrozenNorth asked you the exact same question just because it wasn't me?

Dude, I have a bad habit of responding when people quote me directly but I don't care what you say and I'm tired of your tactics. You can't harass me into responding.