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D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Because all of those extra hits are also only .25% more likely.

Seriously the way the math works out you just add .25% to every number over 1, with 1 being .25%

So, if humans needed to roll a 16 to hit the enemy (because 10 in stat and no proficiency) they have a 25% chance to hit, hitting on 16 or higher.

Halflings get a 26.25% chance to hit. It is literally a 1.25% increase. That is incredibly minor.

Sure, it becomes more certain if you can somehow make 400 attacks against the same enemy in a round, but the difference is not going to turn the tide of the battle.

Humans: 400 attacks, 25%, get about 100 hits
Halflings: 400 attacks, 26.25%, get about 105 hits.
I don't know where you get the 25% number from.

Halflings have an average of 12 dex and against an AC of 15, is hitting on 7 numbers or 35% of the time. So that's 140 hits without luck coming into play. At an average of 3.5 damage a hit, that's 490 damage. Your 3 demons had 50something hit points, it kills those 3 demons in 1 round three times over. And there wouldn't even be three wandering demons in the first place. Hell, at half damage they take out a pit fiend in 2 rounds
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Which is just... hand wavy.

By luck they aren't attacked
And if they are attacked by luck they aren't attacked heavily
And if they are attacked, and it is fairly heavy, then by luck they are able to drive the enemy off

And by luck... it is just so hard to do this properly. You could just as easily say that everything is luck, so of course Aragon got lucky that his ancestor had an oath with some ghosts. And Gandalf was lucky that he made it Helm's Deep in time. And Merlin was lucky to have found Arthur and Lancelot just got lucky in every fight and.... it isn't compelling. If everything is luck, then it doesn't feel earned.
They tie a lot of it into their gods, so not so handwavy.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
er, "Among the many arcane and mundane topics addressed in this tome, the elves set down thoughts regarding the power of innocence.
They recounted how they had long observed the halfling race, watching as the chaos of the world swept around them and left their villages untouched. While ores, dwarves, and humans struggled, fought, and spilled blood to expand their territory"

So I guess you are correct that it isn't luck, but the lore does in fact say that they get ignored much of the time.

No wait, luck is part of it, too. The following is lore about halfling villages.

"It takes a combination of luck and persistence for an ordinary traveler to find such a place , and often that's not enough."
So you are saying the rules and lore say that halflings in groups create a magical locus of good luck?

They are integrated. They just aren't integrated in the same manner as the other races. Not integrates as YOU think they should be, does not equal not integrated.
Finally someone is admitting that halflings are treated differently from the other iconic races.

Nobody said anything about "master." That's a Strawman and not a very good one. Lucky =/= master.
I'm not saying lucky is mastery.

Some have said that halflings are master slingers and duelists and that's why the orcs or hobgoblins haven't kidnapped and enslaved them.

Some, like you, say that when enough halflings congregate, they become so lucky that nothing bad happens to them. This creates the low sense of urgency they have.

I was just asking where these ideas came from and why the idea are buried in supplemental books if halflings are an icoinc core race.

I'd expect this treatment for kobolds or tritons. Not halflings.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
So you are saying the rules and lore say that halflings in groups create a magical locus of good luck?
The rules give them luck. The lore says luck, innocence and perhaps their gods keep them from being noticed.
Finally someone is admitting that halflings are treated differently from the other iconic races.
Sure, but it's not relevant. All races have differences. Elves are highly magical and part of nature. Dwarves mine and forge. Halflings are lucky and unnoticed. All are integrated and all are treated differently than all other races.
I'm not saying lucky is mastery.

Some have said that halflings are master slingers and duelists and that's why the orcs or hobgoblins haven't kidnapped and enslaved them.
They have a dex bonus which gives +1 to hit and damage with slings and have lucky. That makes them deadly with their slings, not mastery.
Some, like you, say that when enough halflings congregate, they become so lucky that nothing bad happens to them. This creates the low sense of urgency they have.

I was just asking where these ideas came from and why the idea are buried in supplemental books if halflings are an icoinc core race.
Some is from the PHB and some is from Mordenkainen's.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
True. Halflings have luck to make those easy saves, and to get an abnormally high number of hits and crits against the enemy. A force of Halflings in combat would be a truly scary thing to face. Even for 3 of those demons.
Yep. Even before you factor in that they have inborn traits that lead to adventure, and to surviving adventure, a bit more often than humans, and thus the town is more likely to have someone with (even very basic) magic weaponry.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Since people brought up Phandalin? Since we've been discussing how a place like that, two days from the nearest friendly government but right next to multiple wild places filled with dangerous enemies would need some sort of defenses to survive?
First, what FR tries to call frontier...often just isn’t.

Second, Phandolin isn’t a halfling town, so try to keep the two threads of discussion straight, at least.
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
You might want to re-read my comment.
Raiders who are just after food and shinies aren't going to want to risk their lives. If the resistance a target puts up means that there is a reasonable chance of them getting killed, they will back off.
The fact that their raiding force could probably take the village in the end is generally of no interest to an individual goblin if there is a good chance that they, personally, will get hurt or killed.
Yep. Most people would rather not win a Pyrrhic victory.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
The rules give them luck. The lore says luck, innocence and perhaps their gods keep them from being noticed.
The rules gives them luck.
Saying the luck makes them invisible to orcs is speculation that is not part of the base rules or lore.

Sure, but it's not relevant. All races have differences. Elves are highly magical and part of nature. Dwarves mine and forge. Halflings are lucky and unnoticed. All are integrated and all are treated differently than all other races.
Being different and being treated different are not the same thing.

Humans, dwarves, elves, gnomes, orcs, dragonborn, and even tieflings are given their own warrior cultures, magic cultures, armies, cities, empires,weapons, magic items, crafts, technology. Their prestige classes were staples. Their gods are put in the forefront of stories. There actions affect the world. Their rivalries are played up.

Halflings get almost none of that.

There is a reason why games that followthe D&D model tend to drop halflings often.

They have a dex bonus which gives +1 to hit and damage with slings and have lucky. That makes them deadly with their slings, not mastery.
Slings suck in D&D and halfling abilities don't make them not suck

Some is from the PHB and some is from Mordenkainen's.
Halflings being so lucky that no one attacks them is not in the PHB.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Neither the rules nor the lore say that. It's totally open.
This is an excuse reason given due to halflings not being fully intergrated into the game as an iconic core race but stated to be one.

If halflings are master slingers and duelists, then slings need to be better weapons or shortswords given to halflings for free with upgrades.
If halflings are super lucky, it needs to apologize to 4e and get Second Chance back in the base class rules.
Lucky is statistically better than Second Chance.
 

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