D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[QuentinGeorge]

humans tend to be described as having a rather feudal structure. That sort of political structure worked because taxpayers got a lord who had a force of trained individuals to do things like go patrol the land to put down banditry & enforce laws. Nearby villages would go ask the nearby lord to join & gain those benefits just as we saw with the romans but people are suggesting halflings would avoid that by acting like they were being hunted for luck glands or something

You know that's not what feudalism is, right? In feudalism the peasant levies are the military force themselves. There's no "hiring" of any force, in fact the substitution of rents for feudal service is what put an end to feudalism.

 

[Chaosmancer]

None of that is relevant. Your argument is basically that Paladins don't make sense, because no other class can smite to the same degree. So what. All classes get things that they can do that others can't. Same with the races and their gods. It doesn't matter if no other race is protected cough gnomes cough to the same degree. What matters is that lots of races get gifts from their gods.

Gnomes were given a tool to protect themselves. They are not protected by their gods.

Paladins are given power. The answer to why a paladin survives a fight is never "because their god protected them"

We don't need them to tell us simple and obvious truths. At least we should not need it.

Sure, we just need it to tell us the opposite of those simple and obvious truths, so we can assume that the truth is different than that, because we need to see both what isn't true and what is.

Clearly that is how these things work

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

How do these places even survive with the near constant raiding parties?

If I remember correctly, Bremen has talking animal bards, so that helps.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yeah. Cool. So the rare of the rare of the rare. Monsters themselves are rare. Then you'd have to have one of the rare monsters of the type that would ignore it happen to be there. Then you'd have to have one of the rare ones who wouldn't care actually ignore the plentiful food in front of it and go inland to die. I expect that happens once a generation or so.

If you want to make it the rare of the rare of the rare, that is your perogative I suppose.

They are active............within their portfolios and behaviors. The Orcs gods aren't helpful scouts. They aren't going to lead the Orcs past the Halfling protections. The Orc gods ARE violent warlords. They will give the Orcs good smashing ability should they ever find Halflings. You're trying to make apples into oranges and that simply doesn't work.

I think what you are missing is that gods have less free will than mortals do. They're more like super powerful intelligent ants. They are awesomely powerful, within the narrow confines of their portfolios. The whole Time of Troubles is all about that.

Are you legit messing with me?

Gruumsh is "He who Watches", his entire symbolism is tied around a single ever-watchful eye. But of course, he can't see things like valuable targets, right?

Or, how about Ilneval, the Orc God of War and Strategy? Think he might, oh I don't know, be involved in the strategy of sneaking past defenses?

Oh! There is also Shargraas, the Orc God of Thieves, Stealth, and Darkness. Think he might, I don't know, guide the orcs through darkness to stealthily get passed an area?

But nope, all the Orc Gods are big smash bois who smash things good. They can't do things like strategy and stealth.

 

[Chaosmancer]

They just need to be more difficult to find and less worth the effort. The books are also silent on how humans protect themselves, so how are they surviving? Please explain how any race survives in monster world without farming communities and villages.

I mean, here's a map of Bremen, one of the villages in FR Ten Towns. Notice anything missing? Like a super tall wall surrounding the village?

View attachment 131986

How about Easthaven?

View attachment 131987

Nope. No wall indicated there. How do these places even survive with the near constant raiding parties?

Right exactly, how are they surviving?

They don't even have god magic or super luck or hidden locations to protect them.

They should have walls, and militias, and a lot of other things.

 

[tetrasodium]

You know that's not what feudalism is, right? In feudalism the peasant levies are the military force themselves. There's no "hiring" of any force, in fact the substitution of rents for feudal service is what put an end to feudalism.

No. Now I'm describing a group that would know how to cook and brew. Stop changing my arguments to suit your needs. I'm getting tired of the Straw army. Either respond to what I'm saying, or please stop responding to me.

Salt is one of the most basic forms of flavoring involved in nearly every kind of cooking. It rarely comes from places known for farmland & places close enough to the ocean to harvest salt tend to be fishing villages or port cities that are not at all obscure. Brewing is a labor intensive process that is easier to do in large quantities & it's much easier for a farmer to trade excess crops for whatever ale & spirits they intend to drink. It's no coincidence that so many monasteries were breweries supported by the wealthy. unseasoned boiled potatoes, unsalted rice lacking things like seasoning or furikake, & oat/wheat gruel are easy for the farmer you describe to cook yes... but those are hardly examples of a "generous meal" as such things are more likely to be described as bland mediocre or even nutritionally deficient. Your arguments aren't being changed just because someone points out the endless parade of unreasonable extremes you are trying to take on everything.

 

[Maxperson]

Gnomes were given a tool to protect themselves. They are not protected by their gods.

You really think that being given super magical powers by their gods is not being protected by their gods? If I give you a gun to protect yourself, I have granted you that protection.

But just to show you...

"When gnomes arrived in the world, Baravar protected them by teaching them how to hide, use magic, and deceive their foes."

And...

"Gnomes build their homes in hidden and defensible places because Gaerdal teaches them these techniques. Every secret door, spy hole, and intruder alarm in a gnome warren is a tribute to Gaerdal's principles." - Not taught. Teaches. Present tense.

Paladins are given power. The answer to why a paladin survives a fight is never "because their god protected them"

Without that power the monsters would kill the Paladin. The Paladin is protected by the god that grants those powers.

 

[Minigiant]

It's all about believablity.

Everyone has different thresholds of it. And when you have a game about adventurers questing, treasure hunting, and monster fighting, there is a leel of believability every player needs in there races, places,and classes that the things in the game would exist in the way they do within the context of the game. The level s often based on the object's emphasis and importance to the game.

Some things clear that minimum level easily like humans, elves, and fighters. Others take some work but pass the bar like gnomes and sorcerers.

And some things, like halflings, take more work that the core book provide for many fans.

 

[Maxperson]

It's all about believablity.

Everyone has different thresholds of it. And when you have a game about adventurers questing, treasure hunting, and monster fighting, there is a leel of believability every player needs in there races, places,and classes that the things in the game would exist in the way they do within the context of the game. The level s often based on the object's emphasis and importance to the game.

This I can agree with. It seems like your level is a bit higher than most here. Me, I'm okay with Halflings.

Some things clear that minimum level easily like humans, elves, and fighters. Others take some work but pass the bar like gnomes and sorcerers.

Gnomes and Sorcerers also pass the believability bar for me.

My major issue with the smaller races as PCs is speed. When your base move is slower than 95% of the creatures you will be encountering, you're pretty much dead if you have to run. They're just plain faster than you are.

 

[Minigiant]

Gnomes and Sorcerers also pass the believability bar for me.

My major issue with the smaller races as PCs is speed. When your base move is slower than 95% of the creatures you will be encountering, you're pretty much dead if you have to run. They're just plain faster than you are.

My issue is that in every edition except 3e, being small was almost always just penalties. The bonuses for being small were few and situationally. In D&D and D&D clones, small aces areslower and weaker. So forme, you have to give a small race something major in mechanics or lore to make their existence make sense.

Dwarves are so wide they are Medium sized and have a culture which stresses duty and reveres warriors and smiths.
Gnomes have illusion magic in their culture and high saving throws.
Goblins are breeders, fast as a human, see in the dark, and absolutely vicious with an advantage.
Kobolds are decieptively pathetic, fast as a human, see in the dar, naturally fight as in groups, and seek or are sought after by powerful masters.