D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Oofta]

The point is their idyllic and idealistic lifestyles and outlook with no real explanation for it clashes with the base presmises of the game of adventurers going out to fight evil or gather coin.

If child-size, nonmagical, happy commoner people who don't have to involve nor interact with the outside world are a staple, why is my nonhalfling fighter busting his butt to slay dark lords and sweep tombs for gold?

Because he's weird for a halfling? Because he sees threats to innocents and he's really fighting for them (and perhaps loot to get better gear)? Because he's curious about what's in the cave? Because his real name is Ogidno Ayotnom and he needs to become the greatest swordsman in the land to avenge his father? Because not every adventurer or campaign needs to be about being a murder hobo only motivated by killing things and stealing their things?

You have an incredibly narrow view of motivations if the only reason is "to slay dark lords and sweep tombs for gold".

 

[Gammadoodler]

No, all races in RPGs other than human are made-up.

Actually all the humans in RPGs are made up too

 

[PsyzhranV2]

I have this thing called reading comprehension. It says exactly this...

"Sometime in the 1400s DR, settlers from Neverwinter and Waterdeep resettled the ruins of Phandalin, and it was well-established by 1491 DR.

In the 15th century DR, a group of bandits known as the Redbrands, or the Redbrand Ruffians, settled in Phandalin, and made their lair under Tresendar Manor."

This gives us a time period of anywhere from 10 years (from 1490 to 1500) up to 199 years (from 1400 to 1599) depending on the nebulous "When did the first settlers move in and reclaim it" which is never said to "What year did the bandits move in?" which is also never said. In that 10-199 years the worst thing that happened was some bandits killed a townperson and kidnapped their family.

15th century means 1401-1500 (the 1st century is 1-100). I believe the current year in 5e Forgotten Realms is 1496 DR, maybe give or take a few years but definitely in the 1491-1500 range.

 

[Minigiant]

Because he's weird for a halfling? Because he sees threats to innocents and he's really fighting for them (and perhaps loot to get better gear)? Because he's curious about what's in the cave? Because his real name is Ogidno Ayotnom and he needs to become the greatest swordsman in the land to avenge his father? Because not every adventurer or campaign needs to be about being a murder hobo only motivated by killing things and stealing their things?

You have an incredibly narrow view of motivations if the only reason is "to slay dark lords and sweep tombs for gold".

You are completely missing my point once again.

I'll say it simply. The viewpoint and customs of halflings as they are described in the books clash with the "realities" of the other intelligent races as described by the books. And often the reasoning for this is not given until years after the edition's first books are printed. Many fans prefer it this way and will simply not think about it that hard.

Add in that halflings are smaller, (weaker in some editions), and have no technological, magical, nor militaristic traditions and the image of halfling life seems unnaturally different from others with only flimsy explanations for it. Especially in older editions and settings which were a lot more grim than today's.

So a human might ask "what are we doing wrong?"

 

[Oofta]

You are completely missing my point once again.

I'll say it simply. The viewpoint and customs of halflings as they are described in the books clash with the "realities" of the other intelligent races as described by the books. And often the reasoning for this is not given until years after the edition's first books are printed. Many fans prefer it this way and will simply not think about it that hard.

Add in that halflings are smaller, (weaker in some editions), and have no technological, magical, nor militaristic traditions and the image of halfling life seems unnaturally different from others with only flimsy explanations for it. Especially in older editions and settings which were a lot more grim than today's.

So a human might ask "what are we doing wrong?"

So ... Halflings are bad because they not elves, dwarves or any of the other races. They're bad because they have the audacity to be different. Because all species, what, need to be militaristic murder hobos?

I can't argue with that. Literally. Because it makes no sense. Have a good one.

 

[tetrasodium]

1) There is no way anyone is going to be able to perfectly and accurately model the entire agricultural schema of every random town on the off chance one of their players is a Food Historian.

Sure but that's not the level of accuracy that started this. It was a farmer who:

• Not some super druid. just an unnamed npc farmer
• Grows/raises all the fruits vegetables grains & livestock to feed his family so they don't need to engage in trade
• Grows everything needed to brew/distil the alcoholic beverages him & his family drink
• Does the brewing/distilling to avoid trade
• Doesn't have any interest in exotic spices
• Realizes boiled unstalted gruel & similar is unappealing
  • adds pepper growing and silk production on top of everything else

Even an archdruid is going to be at their limits with all of that on their plate yet this farmer is just a bog standard farmer. Despite apparently being the clark kent of farmers he doesn't engage in trade except when he does but it's not trade & nobody notices the astronomical level of productivity. You don't need to be a "food historian" to know that something is seriously out of wack there

edit: on the triton & depth speculation, I'm pretty sure that if the lungs are capable of expelling the air to breathe water they would be better able to handle pressures at higher depths even if they had to ascend/descend at speeds less than teleport for their body to adjust too

 

[Maxperson]

You are completely missing my point once again.

I'll say it simply. The viewpoint and customs of halflings as they are described in the books clash with the "realities" of the other intelligent races as described by the books. And often the reasoning for this is not given until years after the edition's first books are printed. Many fans prefer it this way and will simply not think about it that hard.

Add in that halflings are smaller, (weaker in some editions), and have no technological, magical, nor militaristic traditions and the image of halfling life seems unnaturally different from others with only flimsy explanations for it. Especially in older editions and settings which were a lot more grim than today's.

So a human might ask "what are we doing wrong?"

How is "Halflings are safe because of their luck" any more flimsy than "elves are good at magic because they are magical" or "dwarves are resistant to poison because they're sturdy? "

 

[Don Durito]

I assume Forgotten Realms has a silk road equivalent going from Kara Tur or adjacent lands to the core, but I have not seen it (or looked for it). They usually go into these flavor and economic/ecological things sporadically and while sometimes in super depth it is generally not comprehensively. Golarion (Pathfinder) probably has a silk road too with their fantasy India, East Asia, and Middle East world counterparts, but I don't remember it being discussed in the 3.5 campaign setting book. I am similarly not aware of whether this is specified in Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Eberron, Mystara, Cerilia (Birthright), or other D&D worlds. They might have differing levels of description of where their spices come from, but not something I remember having seen.

The spice road and spice trade was historically very important and an analogue or alternate system can be very interesting in D&D (or abstractly handwaved or ignored).

I know of one 160 page sourcebook that goes in depth on it for D&D fantasy, but that is more than I am really interested in getting into the subject. But it is there for those who are interested.

Because it is Forgotten Realms, it has two.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

15th century means 1401-1500 (the 1st century is 1-100). I believe the current year in 5e Forgotten Realms is 1496 DR, maybe give or take a few years but definitely in the 1491-1500 range.

You know, I was assuming the 15th century actually meant 15XX in this case because of the way it followed an already established point in 1491, but then further digging has Ed Greenwood saying it's nebulous but right around 1490, so I will say that's what I get for using the internet as a source.

This then leaves us with anywhere from 0 to 90 years for the bandits to move in, which is fairly useless for determining how dangerous that place is. Maybe someone really into the lore can clarify, I don't even own the adventure. I just know it's the 5e generic small town for many new players, and it's not described as dangerous as some here are saying all undefended small towns on the frontier are.

 

[Chaosmancer]

1) There is no way anyone is going to be able to perfectly and accurately model the entire agricultural schema of every random town on the off chance one of their players is a Food Historian.

No, but not having tropical plants growing in a non-tropical region is a pretty basic start. Add in the types of trade networks we saw in the Late Middle Ages, combined with magic and the majority of things are handled.

2) If you do try to be 100% accurate for some reason, what about the architecture? What about the dialect? What kind of disease do they have? What other minutia are you going to bury yourself in in your unstoppable hatred for halflings?

I keep telling people, I don't hate halflings. I think their lore is poorly supported. That's it. I have no hatred for them.

As for the rest, I do dabble in architecture sometimes. Nothing helps highlight an alien fantasy world better than people not building the same types of houses people are used to, or changing chairs. Dialect would be cool, but I have no voice skill so that is out. Diseases I've toyed with, but they are so easily eradicated with the preponderance of healing magic that generally they don't show up unless someone has made a magic plague.

3) What about flora and fauna that doesn't exist on Earth? Or mutations of those that do? Our species punched the noble wolf into teacup poodles and random grass into corn before we knew what a gene was. How can people with magic and alchemy not make some crap that exists outside of the scope of making a setting 'Earth, only elves'?

And hell, the thing about corn? The native Mexicans didn't know they were using technology to make it edible; its was just a coincidence of their water supply and cookware. Why couldn't those rice growing halflings just happen to have stumbled upon a method of growing water-sipping rice?

Could have. I think that is a fascinating thing to explore. In fact, I've spent years trying to gather a collection of magical flora to add into my games. Fauna less so because it is already pretty full.

But, there is a large difference between me thinking up the hows and whys of a race of people making a grain similar to rice but using less water, and me saying "Boom, desert Rice, because fantasy"

One is treating the world like a real place, with rules that can be understood and followed. The other is the equivalent of throwing balloons full of paint at a wall. I was being presented with "It's fantasy, no one cares." Which is ludicrous beyond belief, considering this is the fandom that created the Draconomicon, that had in depth sketches and organ descriptions for ten different types of dragons, how their eggs worked, their flight, their breath weapons, ect.

4) Improv leads to the best worldbuilding. That's why there are no elephants on the World of Ere. There are mammoths, there are phiomia, but there are no elephants.

Improv can be a lot of fun, but it doesn't mean it leads to the best results. It might for you, but I enjoy world-building too much to just make it up as I go along without exploring it.