Why do you think warforged = robots?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I always thought it was because the robot symbolised the supposedly soulless (but actually not) factory workers who will team up with the supposedly brainless (but actually smart) farm workers who become the new ruler and the supposedly cowardly (but actually not) William Jennings Bryan to use the magic of a silver standard to make everything right, even though the president doesn't really have magical powers and is just a man like everyone else.

That whole silver standard motif thing in the first Oz book has been pretty soundly debunked, FWIW.

 

[Shayuri]

So the terra cotta soldiers found in Chinese tombs are robots? That seems a rather extreme reductionism.

Not liking warforged is fine, and is obviously a matter of taste, but living constructs go back to Greek myth and Galatea and Pygmallion.

Well, you're right about that. I'm not saying all constructs are robots. I'm just saying when I saw the warforged in Eberron, read the entry, read all the other stuff that came out about them...my first mental association was "hey, magic robots."

Is that the only possible conclusion? Course not. But I don't think it's an -unreasonable- conclusion.

 

[jdrakeh]

I could make a character who is a humanoid that perfected herself and detached herself from her own mortality in such a way to become immune to many effects that work on others, gaining eternal youth and the ability to be restored by arcane magic at the price that since she detached herself from her mortality, healing spells only worked half as well. Also, she doesn't heal naturally but can meditate on the way the universe was crafted, using the craft skill, to recover. It would be mechanically identical to Warforged but have different cosmetics and flavour. One would be much more like a robot than the other.

In other words--of course an analogy to robots depends on cosmetics!

I think you misunderstood me. My point was that the only difference between something like Adam (Ravenloft) and a Warforged is physical composition. That's it. Period. Ditto Juggernauts versus Warforged. There's a very stupid double standard here. Since they're made of metal they're robots and therefore unfit for D&D? That's a very poor argument, no matter how much the haters try to dress it up.

 

[bento]

I think of Warforged like the Vision from Marvel Comics. The Vision is (or was?) an synthoid (android with human-like parts) that was given the mental imprints of Simon Williams (aka Wonder Man). The Vision can see beyond his set of instructions originally given by Ultron7 and make his own decisions. In part, he wrestles with who and what he is most time he's not kicking super villain butts.

A warforge has the same issues as the Vision - while they were created and conditioned to carry out instructions by House Kannith (?) they have the capacity to think much deeper thoughts. Maybe they were given the memory imprints of some of the House members, as suggested in Keith Baker's novels.

I find the Races of Eberron also to be enlightning on this subject. The chapter about Warforged goes into the psychology more than any other source I've come across, and in it they stress they have the capacity to make up their own minds. Rbots don't have free will but (most) warforged do. That's why some have struck out on their own, continue to follow their original commanders, or join with the Lord of Blades.

Now given that most players probably haven't read these sources, they probably continue to pigeonhole them into a more limited role. As for warforge's place in fantasy genre, its up to the individual to decide.

 

[Rystil Arden]

So the terra cotta soldiers found in Chinese tombs are robots? That seems a rather extreme reductionism.

Not liking warforged is fine, and is obviously a matter of taste, but living constructs go back to Greek myth and Galatea and Pygmallion.

No, that would be an inanimate statue that became a human. Galatea was at no point a construct with some lifelike qualities--she went from '0' to '1' on the inanimate object vs living scale without stopping at any fractional point (let's say the Warforged are '.5' or whatever fraction you prefer).

That whole silver standard motif thing in the first Oz book has been pretty soundly debunked, FWIW.

Claiming 'debunked' or 'proved' is a pretty strong claim--as far as I know (and I heard it from a PhD in history who has been teaching history for many years, so I tend to trust him over someone random on the internet) I don't think anyone has enough info to prove it one way or the other, so I am intrinsically sceptical of anyone who makes a hard claim like that. You may well be right, of course, but you're going to have to back it up with primary sources before I believe it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Well, random person on the Internet, my PhD professor in American Lit (which is what The Wonderful Wizard of Oz is) said explicitly there was no evidence that L. Frank Baum had any desire to write a parable about the gold and silver standards, despite generations of grad students looking for it.

Your professor is allowed whatever conspiracy theories he likes about children's literature, though.

 

[Ghendar]

I don't think about it:

Just like I don't think about all the reasons why a several tons heavy black dragon can't fly or why it's hanging out in swamps where it can get stuck in the muck, or where elves poop while they're living in trees, or what the world smells like to halflings stuck in fartspace lurking around smelly "I live on Iron Rations" adventurers all the time.

Or like how ghouls eat and eat and eat but don't poop. Where does it all go? Do they eventually explode?

 

[Mark Hope]

So the terra cotta soldiers found in Chinese tombs are robots?

In Mage: the Ascension they are. Early model HITMarks, if I recall correctly.

 

[Jedi_Solo]

I always thought it was because the robot symbolised the supposedly soulless (but actually not) factory workers who will team up with the supposedly brainless (but actually smart) farm workers who become the new ruler and the supposedly cowardly (but actually not) William Jennings Bryan to use the magic of a silver standard to make everything right, even though the president doesn't really have magical powers and is just a man like everyone else.

And water destroyed the witch because she was a respresentation of the problems caused by the dust bowl, correct?

Get your symbolism out of my OZ

On topic...

I get the impression that the 'robot' became an issue because magically controlled 'slaves' (ie golems) have been around and appear in fantasy/myths but PC controlled creations blur the line somewhat (along with "trains" and "cyborgs" and all of that, the "robot" issue was another easy target on the setting).

 

[Umbran]

So, out of curiosity, does the middle one meet the criteria of a "robot" or "android"?

Neither, actually. He's a magical cyborg - he was once a normal man who has been transformed.

When you watched the Wizard of Oz did you wonder why there was a robot there?

I didn't wonder, because he was not in conflict with the genre tropes I wanted, or was expecting.

Way back when I first played "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" I very much did wonder why robots were in the game - it stood as a stark contrast to the tropes I'd come to expect from the game. And while it was fun as a momentary contrast to the standards, and at the time I didn't want to see that sort of thing wandering around the campaign regularly.