Why Does spell Reasearch Have Such a High Cost?

[Janos Antero]

Well remember, DnD is a game that doesn't really trust DM's to make balanced decisions on their own, it instead codifies the rule system to a point where if you just use the default system as it is written, things will be balanced on their own.

That is the idea behind 3.5, the basic rules as written weren't balanced, and overall player feedback indicated that house rules to fix balance issues were undesirable, and instead you should change the core rules.

Not sure what I think of that strategy overall, but it's definately the menality behind the rules in DnD.

 

[Merlion]

Yea I just recently re read Monte Cook's little discussion of essentialy that issue in his design of Arcana Unearthed. I understand and somewhat agree with the fact that they do it that way. But we as players need to be aware that thats what their doing...making things easy for beginners. therefor those of us who've been read and or/using and/or studying the rules for a while do have what it takes...some times ....to alter things without wrecking the game

 

[Magnetic Field]

Incidentally, what exactly qualifies a spell as "standard" anyway?

Players don't have to research spells from the PHB, but why does that necessarily extend to the BoEM? What about third party products?

You buy the BoEM and all of a sudden a whole extra bunch of spells suddenly become "standard" in your world, whereas yesterday they were just mages' pipe dreams.

The rules for researching make it hard, but many DMs will allow in spells from just about anyplace via other means without even really thinking about it.

 

[Merlion]

This is true. I thought of it myself after a while didnt bother mentioning it. but yes. Really like so many things it boils down to taste. how do you want things to work in your world.
But yes your right even the balance arguements themselves beak down a bit with spells from 3rd party products. They are spells designed by people who had nothing to do with the creation and balancing of DnD.
Its another one of those things that they did to make it "easy" for beginers. but those of us who arent beginers shouldnt be bound by that just because its "in the book",

 

[CmdrSam]

What about them? One school of thought could have them utterly screwed when it comes to personal research!
...
You're right -- the cleric should ask very very nicely, and the GM should (usually) just say, in the role fo the deity involved: "What? Are you dissatisfied with my blessings? Not good enough for you, eh? Try living without ANY of them!"
And deny spellcasting, turning, and domain powers for a couple weeks. Sucks to be the impertinant servant for life of a divine authority.

Um, are you aware that the point of the game is for the players as well as the GM to have fun?

Just checking

I figure if the players are involved enough to want to come up with new spells or feats, that's great! It shows they're having fun and that they're personalizing and role-playing their character more instead of having their character be Wizard With Magic Missile #3,472. I don't want to disincentive them to be creative and original.

Of course, I check any player-created spells and feats to make sure they're balanced, but in my mind that practically goes without saying.

Plus, it lets me easily give the NPCs custom spells when I want them to be able to do something that no PHB spell covers

--Sam L-L

 

[Merlion]

Lots of people around here seem to some times forget that. that and that it is supposed to be a flexible, customizable game.

 

[dcollins]

...wizards can get spells for free every level. So why in fact do they EVER have to pay for ANY spell or scribing or anything else?

The logic is that the free spells are discovered during leveling-up studies, or gifted by a master NPC, and hence they are pre-existing spells on the standard class spell list (PH p. 155, DMG p. 41). It's an entirely distinct subject from "researching original spells" (DMG p. 42).

How does having one more balanced spell in your spellbook at a cost of say 500gp/spell level rather than 1k/spell level really even constitue an increase in PC power?

In precisely the same way that adding a new balanced feat, skill, domain, or magic item would constitute an increase in PC power.

 

[Merlion]

but for some reason wizards can get the exact same increase for three prices. 2 such for free every level. however many they want for one price. and however many they want for another higher price that involves more creativity and RP. doesnt make sense to me.

 

[dcollins]

Making up your own class features (original spells) is not the "exact same" as picking spells from a class list in a rulebook. It's a huge benefit not available to any other class type.

 

[Petrosian]

In precisely the same way that adding a new balanced feat, skill, domain, or magic item would constitute an increase in PC power.

Ok to be precise...

Adding a spell to your spellbook, or gaining a feat, or adding ranks to a skill, or picking up a magic item, by default increases the characters power. he now has an ability he did not have before.

There is no inherent power difference, however, implied or in fact, stemming from whether that spell was from the PHB, Tome and blood, BoEM 46, the Sunday paper , a custom one introduced by the GM or one researched by the player.

If the spell chosen is balanced, it matters not where it came from... the power gained is the same as if it was a PHB spell or from any other sources.

matter of fact, the GM is in a much better position to judge FOR HIS GAME the balance of spells because he knows the ins and outs of his world and the SUBJECTIVE demands of his challenges.

meanwhile, as to making up class abilities and that nonsense, there are sections in the PHB and DMg on customizing classes by doing just that. Customizing things is not a no-no. There is no rule against creating feats to fit your campaign or class or character... it all just has to go thru the only filter that matters one iota... your GM.