D&D 5E Why does VGTM has so little to do with FR?

[ccs]

Thank goodness something isn't FR by default! I don't like FR at all frankly. I don't like the deities, the soap opera stories or the baseball stadium full of high level npcs! It's Conan and Elric for me! I can barely bring myself to enjoy SCAG...despite it being official 5e material. And....I'm spent. Sorry to be a nonconformist....I do love 5e regardless....

But how much does the highlighted stuff ever impact the games your actually playing though?
As a DM?
As a player?

 

[Warpiglet]

But how much does the highlighted stuff ever impact the games your actually playing though?
As a DM?
As a player?

All the time if I am a cleric, a DM or an interested sideline guy reading the books....

we we could divorce anything from fluff if we try, really. What if the campaign was circus butt-clown world? Would it matter as long as the numbers are there? To me it would be less fun...unless I need butt-clowns for a pick me up, of course!

 

[Demetrios1453]

The Gobliniod Section is based on Greyhawk, not FR and mentioned a bunch of Gobliniod Deities that have never appeared in an FR product to my knowledge.

Hruggek is of course mentioned in many FR products over the years as the chief deity of the bugbears.

Khurgorbaeyag is mentioned as "Kuro", the deity of some of the Batiri goblins of Chult, who are described starting on page 49 of the 2e accessory The Jungles of Chult. That Khurgorbaeyag and Kuro are equivalent is confirmed in the Thard Harr entry in the 2e accessory Demihuman Deities, on page 85.

Nomog-Gaeya is definitely worshiped by the hobgoblins of the FR setting. Page 88 of the Tethyr book from the 2e boxed set Lands of Intrigue describes the massive statue of Nomog-Gaeya set up by ancient hobgoblins which was later partially toppled by humans who defeated those hobgoblins. The location of the now-broken statue is now known as the Gorge of the Fallen Idol.

Beyond that, the remaining goblinoid deities are so obscure that I doubt they have been mentioned anywhere other than the old 2e Monster Mythology, which was setting-neutral. I was hugely surprised that anyone even remembered them in order to have them updated in VGtM! They certainly aren't Greyhawk standouts...


Beyond all that, as others have said, it's a bit surprising that you expected an accessory that was going to be fully immersed in the setting. It was pretty much what I expected, being a fairly setting-neutral book with a relatively decent amount of FR flavoring, which, while nice, could easily be reskinned for any campaign. I do agree that it is odd they abandoned the setting's history for the yuan-ti. but that's a fairly minor quibble.

 

[Parmandur]

Hruggek is of course mentioned in many FR products over the years as the chief deity of the bugbears.

Khurgorbaeyag is mentioned as "Kuro", the deity of some of the Batiri goblins of Chult, who are described starting on page 49 of the 2e accessory The Jungles of Chult. That Khurgorbaeyag and Kuro are equivalent is confirmed in the Thard Harr entry in the 2e accessory Demihuman Deities, on page 85.

Nomog-Gaeya is definitely worshiped by the hobgoblins of the FR setting. Page 88 of the Tethyr book from the 2e boxed set Lands of Intrigue describes the massive statue of Nomog-Gaeya set up by ancient hobgoblins which was later partially toppled by humans who defeated those hobgoblins. The location of the now-broken statue is now known as the Gorge of the Fallen Idol.

Beyond that, the remaining goblinoid deities are so obscure that I doubt they have been mentioned anywhere other than the old 2e Monster Mythology, which was setting-neutral. I was hugely surprised that anyone even remembered them in order to have them updated in VGtM! They certainly aren't Greyhawk standouts...


Beyond all that, as others have said, it's a bit surprising that you expected an accessory that was going to be fully immersed in the setting. It was pretty much what I expected, being a fairly setting-neutral book with a relatively decent amount of FR flavoring, which, while nice, could easily be reskinned for any campaign. I do agree that it is odd they abandoned the setting's history for the yuan-ti. but that's a fairly minor quibble.

WotC, and in particular Chris Perkins and Matt Sernet, are dedicated to keeping the Oldies train rolling: if there was 1E/2E lore on it, Matt Sernet's literal job is to know it and collate it with latter lore.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm a fan of specificity, so if this book could've answer the question of why use FR, it would be very useful.

It's still pretty useful, but as time goes on I'm less and less enamored with much of 5e's new lore shenanigans.

 

[Demetrios1453]

WotC, and in particular Chris Perkins and Matt Sernet, are dedicated to keeping the Oldies train rolling: if there was 1E/2E lore on it, Matt Sernet's literal job is to know it and collate it with latter lore.

After reading the various deity lore sections in VGtM, I kind of expected that there was someone there like that. For the most part, the book hit all the right deity lore notes, especially, as being discussed, in the goblinoid section (which, since 3e, has basically, and boringly, been Maglubiyet with a few mentions of Hruggek). The whole section on Raxivort in the xvart section was surprising to see as well. The only deities really missing in the book were the beholder deities (which, given how egocentric they are, is not surprising) and the hag deity Cegilune (which, given the re-envisioning of hags as fey, is fine - if necessary Cegilune can simply be changed into an archfey patron like what has been done with Titania and the Queen of Air and Darkness). This certainly bodes well, in my opinion, for future monster lore books like this, where long-ignored deities and pantheons may make their reappearance (for example, will we finally see Saridor properly listed with the other draconic deities instead of an afterthought?)

 

[Flamestrike]

Welcome to Aber-Toril-Oerth.

Maybe when Aber and Toril split apart again (thus ending the nightmare caused by 4th edit... errr... the nightmare of 'the spell plague'), bits of Oerth got swept up and superimposed on Toril.

And I'm being kind of serious. They are retconning like mad, and smashing the fluff of the two together.

Its what happens when the designers dont want to fracture the line again (like with 1 and 2E), yet they also want to retain all the best bits of prior works (including even the tiny little bits of 4E they have yet to totally retcon or sweep under the carpet like it never happened).

At least this provides a 'in game' reason for it.

 

[Parmandur]

Welcome to Aber-Toril-Oerth.

Maybe when Aber and Toril split apart again (thus ending the nightmare caused by 4th edit... errr... the nightmare of 'the spell plague'), bits of Oerth got swept up and superimposed on Toril.

And I'm being kind of serious. They are retconning like mad, and smashing the fluff of the two together.

Its what happens when the designers dont want to fracture the line again (like with 1 and 2E), yet they also want to retain all the best bits of prior works (including even the tiny little bits of 4E they have yet to totally retcon or sweep under the carpet like it never happened).

At least this provides a 'in game' reason for it.

The planes are already an in-game reason, and have been since before I was born...?

 

[gyor]

For the record I don't mind new deities being added to FR, its happens in every edition, but because this is largely a generic D&D book, but marketed as an FR, its not entirely clear what applies to FR and what doesn't apply.

I don't mind a generic D&D book like this, I want clarity and honesty, but its confusing, its like the book don't know if it wants to be a Generic D&D book or an FR book.

Do all the Gods mentioned in VGTM exist in FR or only some of them?

And I wish the Yuan Ti had a side bar explaining the Creator Races, like the Sarrukh who created the Yuan Ti/Lizardfolk/Pterafold/Abasi/Nagas/Wereserpents(gift from Set) , the a massive over sight, for those FR fans who don't know the unique FR lore. Also important, Coutls are an offshoot of the Sarrukh race and as such are partially related to the Yuan Ti in FR, they were made into celestials by the God Jazarian, who was a Fragment of the World Serpent God, as were two of the three Yuan Ti Gods mentioned in VGTM (well Sseth is a fragment of a fragment basically).

 

[Parmandur]

For the record I don't mind new deities being added to FR, its happens in every edition, but because this is largely a generic D&D book, but marketed as an FR, its not entirely clear what applies to FR and what doesn't apply.

I don't mind a generic D&D book like this, I want clarity and honesty, but its confusing, its like the book don't know if it wants to be a Generic D&D book or an FR book.

Do all the Gods mentioned in VGTM exist in FR or only some of them?

And I wish the Yuan Ti had a side bar explaining the Creator Races, the a massive over sight, for those FR fans who don't know the unique FR lore. Also important, Coutls are an offshoot of a Creator race and as such are partially related to the Yuan Ti in FR.

I hear ya, but they seem to not be making much of a distinction between generic and setting specific anymore: which makes sense in light of the Gameholecon comments about their approach to a unified assumed setting.