Why does WotC have to apologize for making money?

[pawsplay]

I don't understand the assumptions inherent in that sentiment. At all. It seems to me that if you buy a product, you did in fact want it.

Well, you can only buy the product someone sells. If you buy a compromise product... well, compromise means you didn't get everything you wanted. and if you feel dissatisfied, you complain. Sure, you got something for your money. A book that is largely satisfactory is worth more than no book at all. But you don't have to be happy about it.

Believing people always buy the things they want at the price they prefer, and that the result is always eocnomically efficient, is shockingly naive to me. Capitalism is great, but it can also waste resources and make people unhappy for no reason at all.

 

[PeterWeller]

To be honest I think that some of the money complaints are rooted somewhere in capitalist hate, but the whole politics ban pretty much prevents me from really expressing my view on that matter. A lot of people simply lack a good working knowledge of economics, and don't realize that a company needs to make money to stay in business.

Granted, I'm sure some of the sentiments expressed come from an anti-capitalist position, but this isn't a politics forum, and like you said, many people don't know enough about economics to really root their problems in a value assessment of capitalism. In addition, it's simply ridiculous to look at this argument as capitalist/anti-capitalist when one of the central conceits of the discussion is that we live in a capitalist society (most of us, at least; this is an international community), and that WotC is a capitalist company operating under the rules of that economic system. With those caveats in place, the question becomes: is WotC operating ethically and conscientiously towards its customers within that system. To make it something more than that is the real straw man, obfuscating the real discussion of whether or not WotC is acting responsibly as a capitalist entity by engaging in a discussion of the rights and wrongs of capitalism.

 

[That One Guy]

You know, it's ironic that you mention that in this thread, considering that Terry Goodkind is known to be heavily influenced by the Objectivist philosophy of Ayn Rand, who was known as an ardent capitalist.

Ironic or intentional? (Still haven't finished Confessor, though)

I'd be interested in knowing, sometime after the fact, what design ideas were proposed and rejected for 4e (some of which were probably excellent); and how many of those rejections were based on "it won't sell".

Like Unearthed Arcana? I always told my friends who wanted to dm to read that book.

 

[Shadeydm]

I don't think they need to apologize for making money.
I do think that the fighter/wizard is one of the most sought after class combinations in the game that dates back to the game's early days. People have been trying to model the "gish" (boy I really dislike that word) for many editions and to turn around and say we have to buy the Forgotten Realms to get this one class is a crappy tactic. I have no interest in Purple Dragons or Red Wizards or playing in the Realms so I find the notion that I should buy this book just for the swordmage quite disagreeable.

It's almost like being told you have to buy a Martini if you want an olive...

 

[SSquirrel]

Maybe they view the more natural blending of the martial and the arcane as happening more easily in a magic heavy world like Forgotten Realms has instead of the PoL setting.
They're already saying taht to play a Gnome you will need to buy the MM..and maybe later the PHB2. Bard and Druid are PHB2, the good dragons will be in a later book. Now hat patching console games down the line is more common, you see companies leaving things out to sell later that used to be in the base game. Nothing new here.

Me I enjoy reading a good campaign setting and like the idea of 3 books for a setting and that's it. If I get a cool class or 2 along w/something I'm reading to enjoy and/or steal from, so much the better. Some people were only going to be happy w/WoTC if they did certain things in the core book or included certain races/classes. No gnome or barbarian and you have people mad. Keep the arcane/divine split and people are mad. Remove alignment and some people cheer while others set out cartons of eggs to go bad before they egg WotC employee houses.

There is no way to please everyone so they use their market research plus what their designers think would be fun and go with it.

 

[Aria Silverhands]

I want to know why they didn't just re-use the name Duskblade for the swordmage. I will beat up the swordmage and make my own duskblade class by stealing his stuff.

 

[Jack99]

I want to know why they didn't just re-use the name Duskblade for the swordmage. I will beat up the swordmage and make my own duskblade class by stealing his stuff.

I want to know why you care what they call the class. Shouldn't the most important thing be that it is a fun, balanced class that allows for some great roleplaying? Or do your characters actually walk around in-game and say stuff like: I am Kari-Tahkir, the almighty duskblade!"

 

[WhatGravitas]

I want to know why they didn't just re-use the name Duskblade for the swordmage. I will beat up the swordmage and make my own duskblade class by stealing his stuff.

Because swordmage tells you more about the class than duskblade?

There could be a magic sword called "duskblade" - swordmage is pretty clearly a class.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Westwind]

Cool. Let's examine a $40 book. If their mark up is 40%, then the $40 book must have cost the retailer $28.57. If the margin for WotC is 13.5%, then the book cost them $25.17 to make, a mark-up of $3.40. (This is using operating margin. The net margin was much less but I think we can ignore interest and taxes for this discussion.) If they sell a million books, then they will make $3.4 million.

I'm pretty OK with spending $3.40 per book to encourage Hasbro to keep WotC around. That sounds neither gratuitous or money-grabbing. Obviously, this ignores the debate as to whether the book is worth $40 to the consumer, but the fact that they are sold in the first place speaks for itself.

Don't forget to include the margins that your losing to the distributor--not huge, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-4%. I wouldn't be surprised to see distributor margins change with the spike in fuel prices. Loading a truck with pallets of cloth (aka hardcover) books kills your fuel economy. I'm assuming distributors by gas futures, but I have no idea how far in advance and when those futures would run out at the (presumably) lower price. Some mega-stores, like Wal-Mart, are pretty well known in the retail world for utterly screwing their distributors so they can offer products at a lower price to the consumer, so the breakdown might be different there, but I can't imagine even Wal-Mart being able to maintain those contracts long-term with gas prices doing what they're doing.

Anyway, what it boils down to is it's harder to make a profit from making/selling books than many people seem to think.

 

[Green Knight]

I don't think they need to apologize for making money.

I do think that the fighter/wizard is one of the most sought after class combinations in the game that dates back to the game's early days. People have been trying to model the "gish" (boy I really dislike that word) for many editions and to turn around and say we have to buy the Forgotten Realms to get this one class is a crappy tactic. I have no interest in Purple Dragons or Red Wizards or playing in the Realms so I find the notion that I should buy this book just for the swordmage quite disagreeable.

It's almost like being told you have to buy a Martini if you want an olive...

Who's to say it won't be reprinted in PHB 2? The PHB 2, however, won't be out til June of next year. Don't you think it's nice to have the option of getting the class nine months earlier? Would you rather it not be playable at all until the release of the PHB 2? Nobody's forcing you to buy the FRPG. They're just giving you the option of having it sooner if you so choose. If it bothers you that much then wait til the PHB 2 or Arcane Power sourcebook comes out, and see if it'll be reprinted in one of those. Odds are that it'll show up again in one of those. In the meantime, those of us who bought the FRPG will get to enjoy the class. So where's the problem, there?