Why Doesn't the Cleric have Cat's Grace? (2002 Thread!)

[Ridley's Cohort]

Maybe I would agree with you if those six enhancers were in the core rules. There was a reason only physical enhancers were in the core rules! Spellcasters buffing themselves up to make fighters useless in comparison is a lame munchkin trick. Of course, so fighters didn't feel bad, they let them have greatswords made out of ridiculous things, then let them wield them one-handed.

All we need to make this game just as fun as 2E would be a book that gave elves, but not other races, fantastic super powers! Oh, and cyborg arms!

Reminds me of that eternal discussion topic of spellcasters being overpowered. Those of us who stick to the core rules wonder why until it is explained the Wiz in their party has spent 2-3 feats boosting DCs and casts a Expanded Expanded Int booster every morning. Well duh!

 

[Madfox]

Reminds me of that eternal discussion topic of spellcasters being overpowered. Those of us who stick to the core rules wonder why until it is explained the Wiz in their party has spent 2-3 feats boosting DCs and casts a Expanded Expanded Int booster every morning. Well duh!

Which reminds me of the discussions taking place when 3rd edition was just published about the DCs being too low for the high saves of the PCs. Somehow WotC can never do it right

 

[Bobbystopholes]

It's funny, I play clerics. I cast Endurance on myself but I prepare Eagle's Splendor for the Paladin (he's better at turning than me) and Bull's Strength and another Endurance for the party's Barbarian. Hmmm, a spell caster actually making his party better

If I used them all on me, they would still be better at those things because they put feats and points into those abilities. If I rolled the highest possible on a Bull's Strength, the Barbarian would still have me beat, hands down. Then he'd cleave me, hit the other cleric, cleave him, hit the Wizard, cleave him, kill our horses, cleave them... all with his Keen, Improved Critical Greataxe, and still have another attack left over, take a 5' step and chop down a tree to cover our corpses. Unless I prepare 5 or 6 other spells, those other fighting classes will always have me beat in the fighting department. I spent my money on Periapts while they got bigger and bigger weapons. Sure, I'll compete with them.

Okay, enough sarcasm.

As far as complaining about core book spells, Cat's Grace is one of those. Clerics should have it. It was arbitrary. I mean, most Cleric's wear full plate, they probably already have a +1 to their dex, so they ain't getting anymore. How would they use it in a munchkiny way? People just complain way too much.

 

[Umbran]

Better question....why don't Druids get any of the buff spells named after animals?

Because the name is not particularly meaningful, and have no bearing on the actual function of the spell The fact that there's a momentary reference to an animal doesn't make it druidic.

 

[wolff96]

Because the name is not particularly meaningful, and have no bearing on the actual function of the spell The fact that there's a momentary reference to an animal doesn't make it druidic.

I think -- and I could be wrong here -- that his point is that enhancement magics seem to be in line with the druidic idea of magic. Enhancing what exists, rather than creating something from nothing. (The difference between Call Lightning and Lightning Bolt is a good example -- the druid uses the existing power of nature, whereas the wizard just creates his own lightning.)

It seems especially odd to me when you consider the way that druids get so many ANIMAL enhancement spells, but none they can use on themselves.

 

[Greylock]

I guess if I look long enough and hard enough, I find that almost every possible question has come up at one time or another.

I just realised my Cleric can't cast Cat's Grace, which is the single most appropriate buff for him. He's a lightly armored speed freak who specialises in long spear and longbow. And his Goddess is a Patron of Knowledge and Grace. The char's domains are Travel and Knowledge. I was asking myself a few hours ago why I never highlighted Cat's Grace on his spell list.

Now I know why.

Silly decision on WotC's part, I think.

 

[nittanytbone]

Spend 2000 GP and research your own clerical version of it.

 

[Crothian]

Spend 2000 GP and research your own clerical version of it.

that onlyt works if the DM allows it

 

[Daywalker]

There have to be some spells they cannot cast that other clerical casters can cast so as to not make them unbalanced cmpared to the druid, like they seemed to be in 2E.

Thinking of specific specialty priests and then comparing them to the rules for a generic cleric as in the SRD... one can argue that almost every spell or weapon in every book should be allowed to clerics based on their particular diety's portfolio or "common sense", my favorite argument of the sort being that clerics should be allowed to use a greatsword, otherwise they wouldn't be making the holy "Paladin use only" ones and would surely create +5 holy/flaming maces instead.

 

[frankthedm]

The spell is left off the list because the cleric is an armor wearer for the most part [& thus little use for Cats grace].

This way in the average party, only 1 person [the wizard] gets to dex buff & that is in place of a Scorching Ray, Web, Invisobility, Glitterdust or Blur.

Plus the wizard is the one who gets to buff the heathen rogue.