Why *Dont* you like Forgotten Realms?

[ggroy]

I liked the Forgotten Realms "grey box" from the 1E AD&D days. I had the first several 1E AD&D FR supplement books such as Waterdeep, Moonshae, etc ...

Back in the day, it was a cool sandbox setting.

 

[Dice4Hire]

The history is ok, the map is fine, there ar a lot of interesting areas, but I haeve a few reason I do not run there.

1. Too much Canon. If you want to get fully or mostly up to speed, it is a lot of work.

2. Too many players who have done the above. Players whose characters have an uncanny (and totally implausible) knowledge of every organization, mover and shaker and locale in the whole world. Then they use this knowledge to steal the spotlight, or worse engage in lengthy discourses with their fellow FR-phile while those who are not in the know sit around. This is very annoying as a DM or a fellow player.

3. No elbow room. Every corner of the world is detailed and there are too many areas with little room to manouver. Yes, there are some wilder areas, but not enough.

In short, for my tastes, it is overly detailed and has been redone too much. But I am happy 4E did little with it, so it is not taking up much of hte developer's valuable time.

 

[malraux]

1. Do you avoid Forgotten Realms products?

In the sense that I don't own any, I guess I do.

2. Do you like either Pre or Post spellplague only, and if so which one and why?

I would read and possibly borrow bits and pieces of the 4e CS, only because the 4e book seems to be designed for such cutting. As a complete setting, I just don't have an interesting story to tell in Faerun.

3. What Don't you like about Forgotten Realms?

It might be just a bad first impression, but I personally despised the 3e campaign setting book. To me, it felt like the least interesting parts of every european history textbook. I couldn't ever get into the setting.

Beyond that, I never felt that FR offered much beyond the generic DnD setting except for mindcrushing detail. Possibly, I'd like some of the original grey box material, as I would assume it avoids such problems. That said, if I'm buying old material like that, I'd rather buy Spelljammer or Planescape or other worlds.

 

[Nork]

Some of the reasons I've heard are pretty ridiculous "I don't like Elminster", seems to be the funniest, just because it's so easy to just not use a specific NPC if you don't like them, and because they come up so rarely anyways, unless the DM builds his campaign specifically to make use of them.

I don't think that is a ridiculous reason to dislike the realms.

I've literally had this discussion with people before on why they dislike the realms. It is what Elminster is the most egregious example of, and represents, that makes people dislike the realms.

Elminster is the grand-daddy of all "DM pet characters", and the realms is lousy with his ilk. Why should the PCs even bother to get up in the morning? Somebody else will solve the big problems problems in the realms. Heck, forget the big problems, if your cat gets stuck in a tree, you can likely find an archmage to get it down for you.

Eberron is lousy with magic as well, but the setting took specific steps to make sure it wasn't lousy with archmages and heroes more qualified than the PCs under every seat cushion. If some big bad evil guy tries to take over the world, the PCs better stop it, because nobody else really can.

If I was going to try and make something out of the realms, I'd go for an evil campaign. That way players wouldn't feel like that when confronted with the major plot of the campaign, that their best course of action is to just tell three random people on the street about the plot, so they can be sure that they told at least two Harpers about it, and then go get lunch and take a nap because the problem is handled.

Ok, maybe that is a bit hyperbolic, but the problem with the realms is that it didn't *feel* hyperbolic, and Elminster is the poster child for why it didn't feel hyperbolic.

Edit: Oh yea, and Drizzit too.

 

[fba827]

it's already highly detailed. I am terrible at remembering detail.
As a player, this means I'd be expected to remember/know something that wasn't necessarily presented over the course of the campaign itself.
As a DM, this means I need to know/memorize way more georgraphy / history/etc. And if a player remembers it better than I do, well, my credibility as DM gets shot a little right there.

Further, there are already established (and well known) high ranking NPCs. It becomes hard to have plausible reasons as to why those established NPCs aren't fixing everything themselves with thier near-god like powers.

It should be noted that I have the same opinion of all premade campaign settings. FR just happens to have more established history and lore than many of the others.

 

[the Jester]

1. Do you avoid Forgotten Realms products?
2. Do you like either Pre or Post spellplague only, and if so which one and why?
3. What Don't you like about Forgotten Realms?

All of this is personal opinion etc etc disclaimers blah.

1. Almost but not quite entirely; I got the original grey box, the Ruins of Undermountain box, some 2e monster books, the 3e Monsters of Faerun book (many of the monsters within which were not really FR monsters at all), and... hm... I think that's about it.

2. No, although I prefer the "original era" FR over everything that has come since. By which I mean, FR with NO extra supplements past the Grey Box. Other than that, I like FR 4e, as it has done away with much of the stuff that I didn't like about it.

3A. Elminster, to start with- which is one of the things that 4e did to the Realms that I love: get rid of 90% of the "superheroes". There shouldn't be enough ultra-powered high-level good npcs in the campaign world that you can't explain why the bad guys haven't had their asses kicked long ago. But this is the least pressing bit of my dislike for FR. Add to that...

3B. Stupid mechanics, mostly in the 2e era, but bad enough that they forever tainted the flavor of FR for me; or the bastardization of things that were much cooler in their previous incarnation in my opinion. Bladesinger, I'm looking at you as one type of example of this. Spellfire, you're another. Drow as pcs- although originally in Unearthed Arcana- I blame your popularity on FR, and I still will never allow you in my campaign. Drow are better as monsters than they are as player options.

3C. By far my strongest hate, and again, large eliminated in the current incarnation of the Realms, is reserved for metaplot. Although this applies quite as much to other campaign settings (Dark Sun 2e with your goddamn IMMEDIATE REVISION OF THE BOXED SET RIGHT AFTER IT CAME OUT), FR seems to be a pretty bad offender. I don't want to read crappy game fiction to know what's happening in the campaign, but if all the supplements change stuff around in response the events in novels, rather than reading crap novels I'll stop buying crap-required game products.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Some of the reasons I've heard are pretty ridiculous "I don't like Elminster", seems to be the funniest...

Depending on the day of the week, I don't like FR just because so many love it. Every other day of the week, I don't care one way or the other.

 

[Ulrick]

I don't like Forgotten Realms for many of the reasons mentioned. But most of all, well, it kicked Greyhawk to the curb for a few years and took up space in both Dungeon and Dragon magazines. And nearly every single article and rulebook had something to do with how great Elminister is/was. Its like Ed Greenwood got a green light to brag about his favorite D&D character ad infinitum/ad nauseum. And most of the rest of FR content is just thrown together without much inspiration or originality.

 

[samursus]

I am not a big fan of Forgotten Realms as a campaign setting. As a novel setting I enjoy it a lot. I think I just answered the question.

 

[Semah G Noj]

I've literally had this discussion with people before on why they dislike the realms. It is what Elminster is the most egregious example of, and represents, that makes people dislike the realms.

Just to add to this, there was also the phenomena of statting up these heroes to be more powerful than than were allowed by the rules in every edition they were statted (Elminster's again the most egregious example of this.) So not only are these characters more powerful than you, but they would always be more powerful than you. The books have another purpose than just advancing the metaplot, in a lot of cases, they're people's first experience with anything D&D related. It's not the best introduction when someone wants to emulate their favorite character and find out they can't.