D&D General Why Enworld should liberate D&D from Hasbro

[LuisCarlos17f]

We could agree speculative fiction needs ethical values but if you want to convince your readers or audiences then you can't seem a propaganda pamphlet. And you have to coherent. If you tell a story to report the sins by a group but you say nothing about others then you lose all credibility. We have to be more subtle.

The sage of "Song of Ice and Fire" (Game of Thrones) isn't ideologically neutral at all, and its really is one of the most mature (in the right sense) but it is told in the right way. There is a clear difference between an older guy tring to share his wisdow and telling a tale to brainwash you.

The fantasy movie "the golden compass" suffered a boycot, and we know the reasons.
Hasbro wants D&D to be a family-friendly brand, and in 5e Ravenloft has been relativelly softed. Even if Dark Sun is updated to 5e we may see some serious changes, for example certain details will be totally omitted because they are about certain taboo threats for the current standars by WotC.

Some tropes could become inaproppiate when certain abuse of some stereotype begins to occur, for example the femme fatale. Of course you can add a femme fatale in your stories a couple of times but if the players suspects each hot-chick in the scene could be a potential menace, there could be a dangerous abuse of trope. Other potentially dangerous trope is to introduce antagonists like the cardinal Richelieu.

This is a spot mocking certain Hollywood trope.

WotC even with it flaws at least it is creating a fanbase. In other countries lots of roleplayers started with D&D and later maybe they changed into other game but D&D has been the icebreaker ship in other markets. You don't know what is to have to await several months to can buy the translated edition (even if you wanted to buy the imported original English-languange edition is more difficult) and lots of titles aren't translated.

 

[Autumnal]

A Song Of Ice And Fire isn’t told “I’m the right way” for a bunch of readers with intelligent, adult objections, most b by broadly about the accuracy of asserted historical precedents and whether even if true they constitute sufficient justification for things like the portrayal of sexual violence. It’s not always about prides and censor wannabes raising concerns. Which is part of my point about. Ideological neutrality. Works have politics as surely as the have grammar, even if their creators never think about either.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

D&D should be ideologically neutral.

There is no such thing as “ideologically neutral”. You either represent, or you exclude.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

There is a great difference between when an artist or author is using his work to show his point of view and when the entertaiment industry is used like a propaganda weapon.

I can tell a story or fabule to explain the difference between authority to give orders and the keys of the true leadership. It is not "ideologically neutral" according your point of view but it is according mine because it is about to teach an universal lesson for all audiences and generations. A different thing would be for example the cartoon "Aztec Batman: Clash of empires". Do you remember the old far-west movies where the Northamerican natives were the antagonists? Generations later this wouldn't be wellcome by the modern audiences.

OK, let's try with other example. The "X-Men" cartoon from 90s. It was and wasn't ideologically neutral. It was a title for all the audiences, and it could be watched by children, but it was about versious threat, the fight for the coexistence and against the predujices and intolerance. The cartoon "G.I.Joe: the real American hero" was for children, and it was but it wasn't ideologically neutral. Don't you remember the cultural impact of the movie "V of Vendetta"? The famous sci-fi serie "V" from 80s about those repilitian aliens who ate living mice was a fabule about the rise of nazism. It wasn't "ideologically neutral" because it was about the fall of the democracy and the rise of tiranny but it was "neutral" in the sense the message it was for all audiences. But is you are watching the teleserie "the last of us" and you suspect that character could be the bad guy because he is showed doing certain thing.. and you discover your suspects were right, then the plot is "ideologically tainted" because there is an abuse of certain trope.

The cartoon "Captain Planet" was to promote the respect and responsability for the Nature. It was to send a pro-ecological message but they tried to do it in a soft and right way.

Today, a large segment of society is fed up with the entertainment industry because it monopolizes a single point of view on reality, and they don't want to spend their money on propaganda that tries to shame them if they don't share the same opinion as the author.

I mean you tell your story to explain the reasons of your opinion but if you want to be heard, you must earn their trust. If they feel offended or suspect you're trying to preach propaganda, they'll ignore you.

It is OK to tell a story with a message if the plot is good, but you should try to avoid (the abuse of) certain tropes because it could become unconfortable or offensive for too many people.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Fantasy shouldn't be political??? Could have fooled me...



Non fantasy entertainment can be quite political too (and not grandma friendly)...

 

[Zardnaar]

I would offend everyone equally. WotC problem is they make insipid product with no nuance. Not politics.

That means I would release a thirsty sword lesbians cranked up to 11 slap a mature or R18 label on if required. Biggest gayest pro lgbtq product they've ever made.

Then release a Darksun faithful to its 2E incarnation. Slap a mature label on it if required.

Release a Nentir Vale book.

Release a starter set thats kid friendly. Bright colorful cartoony. I would hate it lol but I would make it.

Release a adult friendly starter set. Eg stranger things.

The Southpark approach. Offend everyone equally. A week later no one will care.

 

[aiouh]

I don't find anything on South Park particularly ideologically offensive.

 

[Corinnguard]

You are not wrong. But are there any pictures of male female romance in 5e? Or in ads?

I don’t remember any. But maybe as you say it’s because I am blind to representations that are more common.

It's more like any picture of male-female romance in 5e was asked to perform a Charisma (Stealth) check. They rolled successfully and stealthily avoided the reader's attention.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I hope to explain it in a right way without innecesary troubles.

When Jonathan Swift wrote "Gulliver's Travels" his intention was never to tell a kid-friendly tale. It was a satire about certain elements from his age but we know the version for children. Maybe the closest version would be that 1996 miniserie with Ted Danson.

(Speculative) Fiction can be used like a softer way to talk about more serious threats, but when the entertaiment industry is used to promote certain points of views it may be very risky because the consumer could feel offended or start to distrust. Some important franchises have lost a lot of brand power because the reject of the audience.

George Orwell's "Animal Farm" isn't a fabule for children, it isn't ideologically neutral, but the message is transmited in a right way.

When the author uses the plot to teach something you didn't know then it is right, but it is only repeating again something you listened before, then it becomes propaganda and it may be really annoying when you offend a side but nothing is said about others.

Let's try other example. The action girls can be wellcome by the fandom: Lara Croft, Xena the warrior princess, Trinity(Matrix), Wonder Woman, Katniss Everdeen (the Hunger Games), the bride(Kill Bill), Alice (Resident Evil movies), Hit-Girl(kick-ass), Buffy vampire slayer, Halliwell sisters(Charmed)... but other times certain heroines aren't so popular and loved. The audience notices when to give more light to the members of certain group then others are displaced or "hidden". If the reader believes you are saying to defend ones you have to hate other group then you may be doing it very wrong.

And you have to offer enough characters with which the audience could identify with one of them.

 

[AlViking]

We could agree speculative fiction needs ethical values but if you want to convince your readers or audiences then you can't seem a propaganda pamphlet. And you have to coherent. If you tell a story to report the sins by a group but you say nothing about others then you lose all credibility. We have to be more subtle.

The sage of "Song of Ice and Fire" (Game of Thrones) isn't ideologically neutral at all, and its really is one of the most mature (in the right sense) but it is told in the right way. There is a clear difference between an older guy tring to share his wisdow and telling a tale to brainwash you.

The fantasy movie "the golden compass" suffered a boycot, and we know the reasons.
Hasbro wants D&D to be a family-friendly brand, and in 5e Ravenloft has been relativelly softed. Even if Dark Sun is updated to 5e we may see some serious changes, for example certain details will be totally omitted because they are about certain taboo threats for the current standars by WotC.

Some tropes could become inaproppiate when certain abuse of some stereotype begins to occur, for example the femme fatale. Of course you can add a femme fatale in your stories a couple of times but if the players suspects each hot-chick in the scene could be a potential menace, there could be a dangerous abuse of trope. Other potentially dangerous trope is to introduce antagonists like the cardinal Richelieu.

This is a spot mocking certain Hollywood trope.

WotC even with it flaws at least it is creating a fanbase. In other countries lots of roleplayers started with D&D and later maybe they changed into other game but D&D has been the icebreaker ship in other markets. You don't know what is to have to await several months to can buy the translated edition (even if you wanted to buy the imported original English-languange edition is more difficult) and lots of titles aren't translated.

So if that commercial kind of makes me want to buy a Jaguar, does that make me an evil super villain? Hmm ... on the other hand my players might agree that I am.