Why Grab Does Not Work

[Gort]

Because if I remember correctly, being grabbed grants Combat Advantage to all adjacent foes, correct?

Nope, just stops 'em moving.

 

[Cadfan]

I'll have to drop back into this when I'm at home with my books, but...

I was under the impression that default grab for pcs was weak, but that power based grab was decent. Also, that grabbing has been calibrated so that characters who get grabbed by grab-based monsters will probably take damage for a round or so, then squirm free.

If my recollections are correct, then it should work just fine.

 

[RodneyThompson]

Also, a good way to keep grab from being an action sink on the monsters' part is just have an "and grabbed" rider on some of its attacks. I know at least a few monsters do that now...

 

[Cadfan]

I should also add- I have high hopes for Grab in the long term.

D&D has been designed on a premise that anyone who went into battle without carrying something in both hands was an idiot. That left hand is an item slot! What do you think you're doing, you fool! Put something in it! Anything!

Grab provides something for an empty hand to accomplish. All we need are some more grab related powers, and the rapier + empty hand swashbuckling type becomes much more viable. Also, see Monks.

 

[Plane Sailing]

caveat: not having read the rules yet

It seems that the obvious step that you might want to take once you had grabbed someone and immobilised them is to restrain them. Do the grabbing rules cover anything after the basic grab in terms of attempting to restrain (or whatever the term is for what comes after immobilise in the hierarchy)?

 

[Alraiis]

caveat: not having read the rules yet

It seems that the obvious step that you might want to take once you had grabbed someone and immobilised them is to restrain them. Do the grabbing rules cover anything after the basic grab in terms of attempting to restrain (or whatever the term is for what comes after immobilise in the hierarchy)?

Only if you're a rogue with the Stab and Grab encounter power, unfortunately. Having read this power first, myself, I thought as you did: that there was a grab advancement of sorts, but there's nothing in the actual grab rules that says you can restrain an immobilized target (Unless I seriously can't read or it's in some illogical place I haven't looked at yet).

 

[Deverash]

For a fighter who for some reason isn't using a shield, it can be useful to mark something with the grab, and hold someone still so the rogue can backstab him.

Or, for the monsters to nail that damn striker to keeps shifting away. And if they do extra damage for combat advantage, it's just all better.

 

[Alraiis]

That's another thing. It doesn't look to me as if being grabbed provides CA at all. All it does is immobilize, which, according to the condition summary on 277, says nothing about combat advantage.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

I do not totally disagree with you. 3E Grapple was too potent.

But, 4E went overboard in the opposite direction. PCs and NPCs will never use it. The only conceivable time it might be used is if 3 or more enemies mob the target and the DM forces the target to roll to get out of each and every grab.

Think about this for a minute - if you were fighting someone equipped with any kind of sharp, pointy thing who was approximately your equal in fighting skill, would you honestly try to rush him and grab him? Personally, I would also use my sharp pointy thing to sharply stick the point in him before he does so to me.

The exception to that case is when there is a mob, or when there is a monster that grabs people by default. The mob doesn't really need any help - if, say, you have 5 minions trying to pin down the slippery rogue, only one of them needs to grab him to keep him still, then the other 4 pound on him for a round until he escapes. I don't see the problem there. And monsters that specialize in grabbing their foes? Give them powers and bonuses to grabbing. Simple.

In a game where you're supposed to be stabbing or smashing or blasting things with your whatever, forgoing your weapon of choice to grab someone with your bare hand should not be optimal, or even very good at all. Of course, when monks come around, it might be another story.

 

[Meeki]

That is correct, the only condition grab applies is immobilized. However, the attacker still has another hand free. Obviously the attacker cannot move but he can make Opportunity Attacks and, if the grab is still going next turn, attack his grabbed target or adjacent enemies within reach.

I don't think it was meant to be a viable tactic to build a character around. Also I don't feel that Grab is the 4e Grapple, it's just the closest action to it. In my mind all you are doing with a grab is reaching out with one hand and holding onto the target's arm, shirt, etc; not trying to initiate a full blown grapple.

Always remember 4e was designed so that DM's will have to add their own judgment to the rules more so than in 3e ( at least in my opinion it seems this way).