Why I Hate Skills

[Bill Zebub]

The roll does follow. It just isn't necessarily rolled by the player if they shouldn't have that information.

Can you give an example of when that would apply?

 

[VHawkwinter]

In some cases I postpone the roll. For example, in trying to forge a document it can be assumed the PC keeps at it until they think they got it right, so there's no roll there. But when they hand it to the guard...that's when they roll...

... You know - somehow that never occurred to me as an option. I don't think I would always find that an appropriate solution for the cases where I currently do secret checks, but it certainly works for some of them.

 

[VHawkwinter]

Sure. I was just noting that just eliminating skills isn't always the simple solution; there's probably other overhead you need to do.

That's fair, that's fair.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Sure. I was just noting that just eliminating skills isn't always the simple solution; there's probably other overhead you need to do.

And the biggest overhead, at least in my opinion, is that so many adventures assume the presence of those skills, and in the form I'm railing against. Getting rid of the Perception skill doesn't magically turn "Any PC who makes a DC 17 Perception check notices the trap door" into an interesting and engaging challenge.

 

[VHawkwinter]

And the biggest overhead, at least in my opinion, is that so many adventures assume the presence of those skills, and in the form I'm railing against. Getting rid of the Perception skill doesn't magically turn "Any PC who makes a DC 17 Perception check notices the trap door" into an interesting and engaging challenge.

Definitely, if the game you're wanting to run doesn't look much like 5e, those 5e adventures won't do you a ton of good without you reworking them substantially.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Definitely, if the game you're wanting to run doesn't look much like 5e, those 5e adventures won't do you a ton of good without you reworking them substantially.

Yeah, it's not just 5e. It's how so many authors, across so many systems, assume skills are meant to be used. Hence this thread.

 

[VHawkwinter]

Yeah, it's not just 5e. It's how so many authors, across so many systems, assume skills are meant to be used. Hence this thread.

Yeah, I suppose. It's mostly like, OSR games that don't have skills. But I was just saying if you're running a game and want to change how it's challenges work, you'll have to overhaul published adventures if you're a published adventures guy

 

[Thomas Shey]

... You know - somehow that never occurred to me as an option. I don't think I would always find that an appropriate solution for the cases where I currently do secret checks, but it certainly works for some of them.

It tends to be the way I do it too; after all, how would you know if you'd correctly got the information other than checking, and if you can do that a way other than when it matters, what was the point in the roll in the first place?

 

[Thomas Shey]

And the biggest overhead, at least in my opinion, is that so many adventures assume the presence of those skills, and in the form I'm railing against. Getting rid of the Perception skill doesn't magically turn "Any PC who makes a DC 17 Perception check notices the trap door" into an interesting and engaging challenge.

Well, I don't tend to use prewritten adventures, so that wouldn't even occur to me. I was thinking more in terms of what impact just deleting skills would have on things like the 3e rogue or bard..

 

[VHawkwinter]

It tends to be the way I do it too; after all, how would you know if you'd correctly got the information other than checking, and if you can do that a way other than when it matters, what was the point in the roll in the first place?

The stealth roll or whatever can also be done behind the GM screen when you attempt it and revealed if/when the consequences become available.

And for knowledge checks the GM can tell you what you think you know without telling you what the number was that decided what you know. If what you know doesn't answer your questions, you then start carousing or researching.