D&D 4E Why I hate the Hydra: —and other dumbed down 4E monsters—

[TwoSix]

Here, use this to fix the Hydra:

Learnaen Legacy (immediate, when bloodied)
When a hydra is bloodied, it immediately regains enough hit points to be 20 above its "Bloodied" value and gains an additional bite attack. This happens every time the hydra is bloodied, until it has 12 bite attacks.
Special: attacks that deal fire damage don't trigger this ability.

Definitely stealing that.

 

[Lizard]

Unless it's a cool ability, I'm not interested in micromanaging statlines during combat - it's a waste of my time for no significant benefit.

I'm totally okay with lycanthropes having particular powers only usuable in one form or another. But, as far as I can tell from this thread, that's what they've got in 4e.

Sigh.

I keep forgetting I am, apparently, the only person on this board (perhaps the only person on the planet, to judge by WOTCs marketing) who has players interact with NPCs in a non kill-them-now environment. Hence, my desire for two stat blocks -- or more, if I happen to think the whole White Wolf multi-stage werewolf thing is cool.

4e starts simple, so it's easy to add as much complexity as you desire without going over the top. 3x was pretty near the "too much" point, so adding more to it was often problematic. Call this a win for 4e.

To use a Real Play (tm) example: In my D20M game, one of the PCs had a werewolf for a roommate. Cage in the basement, you know the drill. A large plot arc revolved around his old pack coming to hunt for him in the city (San Francisco, if anyone cares). Since the roomie was with the PCs a lot, usually in human form, and often interacted with them mechanically -- either in arguments/debate (diplomacy/intimidate) or in the occasional street brawl (damn kobold gangstas), I needed his "Human" stats. Since he was hostile to them in wolf form, I needed his "wolf-man" stats, and having them be different really emphasized the nature of the curse -- from reasonably strong, reasonably normal guy to virtually insane low-int rage-crazed killing machine. There were two "big boss" werewolves who also interacted with the PCs a lot in human form.

When the big "assault of the pack" scene came, I needed Genericus Wolfmanus stats for the hordes (In 4e, I'd use minions), and of course wolfman stats for one of the bosses (the other sat out the fight to be a recurring foe). I didn't need human-form stats for the mass onslaught, because there'd be no real chance of the PCs interacting with them in human form, and, if they did, I could use Generic Toughs from the D20M manual.

So, for pure "Assault of the Rat Men" scenarios, yeah, you probably only need one set of stats, especially if the human form is weaker (because why would the rat men ever use it in combat?) But if you've got long-time werewolf NPC, I think two stats are needed. At least for my games. Run your own the way you want, eh wot?

 

[hong]

Sigh.

I keep forgetting I am, apparently, the only person on this board (perhaps the only person on the planet, to judge by WOTCs marketing) who has players interact with NPCs in a non kill-them-now environment.

Tch. Ruthless egalitarianism will get you nowhere.

 

[Blackeagle]

I keep forgetting I am, apparently, the only person on this board (perhaps the only person on the planet, to judge by WOTCs marketing) who has players interact with NPCs in a non kill-them-now environment. Hence, my desire for two stat blocks -- or more, if I happen to think the whole White Wolf multi-stage werewolf thing is cool.

Maybe you're just the only one who needs stat blocks to interact with NPCs outside of combat.

<SNIP interesting campaign example>
So, for pure "Assault of the Rat Men" scenarios, yeah, you probably only need one set of stats, especially if the human form is weaker (because why would the rat men ever use it in combat?) But if you've got long-time werewolf NPC, I think two stats are needed. At least for my games.

I think a lot of this depends on what you want your werewolves to be like. Based on your description above (and that really does sound like an interesting campaign) you seem to be going heavily into the whole "transform into a wild beast" angle on werewolves, where transforming has a big effect on both mind and body. This definitely emphasizes the "curse" aspects of lycanthropy. If the wolf form is much stronger and more bestial than the human, then two stat blocks make sense.

On the other hand, I'm thinking of lycanthropy as something more like: Shapechange (furry). The transformation really doesn't affect the mind and all, and the physical changes are limited to things like adding fur and big teeth, rather than massive increases in strength. This certainly doesn't emphasize the cursed aspect, but I think this fits better with natural lycanthropes (going all natural was something I was considering even before hearing about the changes in the 4e MM).

If the differences between the forms are fairly small, I think it's a lot easier to just note which abilities are usable in which forms than to have three (mostly identical) stat blocks. Right now I'm thinking that werewolves won't get regeneration in human form, in hybrid form they gain regeneration and a bite attack, and in wolf form they loose the ability to use weapons but gain a boost to speed. Easy to run with one stat block, but still provides advantages and disadvantages to each form.

Run your own the way you want, eh wot?

Yep.

 

[Lizard]

Maybe you're just the only one who needs stat blocks to interact with NPCs outside of combat.

If anything they do overlaps with rules (Diplomacy checks, allies in combat), then, yes. Even things like Spot/Listen (Perception) -- why shouldn't the NPC get a chance to see the ambush even if the PCs don't?

Sometimes, necessity forces me to play the "phasing" NPC who vanishes when the fight starts and reappears when it's over, for purely plot reasons, but I prefer not to do that if I don't have to.

 

[Blackeagle]

If anything they do overlaps with rules (Diplomacy checks, allies in combat), then, yes. Even things like Spot/Listen (Perception) -- why shouldn't the NPC get a chance to see the ambush even if the PCs don't?

Generally, if I don't think the NPC is likely to get into combat, I won't bother. For stuff like social skills I usually just set a static DC rather than rolling for the NPCs.

Sometimes, necessity forces me to play the "phasing" NPC who vanishes when the fight starts and reappears when it's over, for purely plot reasons, but I prefer not to do that if I don't have to.

"You're dragging the loremaster into the dungeon?"

Yeah, I've had that happen too. I'm wondering if the fact that it's easier to stat up monsters and NPCs in 4e will make that kind of situation less likely. Both because the DM may generate full stat blocks for more NPCs, and because it's easier to BS some combat stats in this edition. Of course, that still doesn't solve the problem of the players dragging an NPC with script immunity into combat.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Dont really care for the fact they don't cause lycanthropy anymore, but that's easily house-ruled in my games.

I don't care for that either - in my games, I've gotten rid of the hereditary lycanthropy, so the only way to get were-d up is to be bitten.

 

[Grazzt]

I don't care for that either - in my games, I've gotten rid of the hereditary lycanthropy, so the only way to get were-d up is to be bitten.

Yep. Should be fairly easy to change I think. Probably nothing more than changing the last step on the condition track for the disease(s) caused by the lycanthropes. Make the last step "you turn into a were[insert creature name]"

 

[Deadstop]

Sigh.

I keep forgetting I am, apparently, the only person on this board (perhaps the only person on the planet, to judge by WOTCs marketing) who has players interact with NPCs in a non kill-them-now environment. Hence, my desire for two stat blocks -- or more, if I happen to think the whole White Wolf multi-stage werewolf thing is cool.

4e does provide human statblocks (and an entire human PC-creation system) as well as the werewolf hybrid statblock. I believe the wolf may be one of the few normal animals with a statblock, too; if not, it's not unreasonable to use dire wolf or worg stats for a wolf-form werewolf.

Of course, that breaks the "stats right there on the page" advantage of 4e, but so would a template approach. The resources are there, though, if you need a human NPC who also happens to be a rampaging wolf-beast.


Deadstop