D&D 5E Why I love 5E - the renewal of Theater of Mind

[Tony Vargas]

I agree with the OP: ToTM is perhaps the major drawcard of 5e for me. It's the default as far as I understand it. The grid etc are optional rules in DMG aren't they?

Yes. That's about the only difference between 5e and 3e as far as TotM vs grid support is concerned. 5e tells you to use TotM, 3e doesn't label the use of a grid 'optional.'

I have generally found that which one I use depends heavily on the scale of what's going on. Flying over the treetops in an airship? ToTM. Engaging in a fight with a hundred foes? ToTM. Fighting a single enemy in an enclosed area? Minis and map. Exploring a town? Pre-made maps are helpful for both sides, often such maps can be purchased from your local travel agency so I don't have to keep reminding everyone where everything is!

Biggest factor for me used to be the availability of a play surface. When you're in college and a studio apartment is the only place you have to run a game....

But, yes, TotM is good for scenes where you can't capture the scale of movement on a play surface - chase scenes and the like. It's also OK for quickie combats that you don't expect to take more than a round or two to resolve, and for single-monster beatdowns where everyone's either going to surround it or keep their distance and there's nothing the victim can do about it. Any combat with a little depth or complexity becomes easier to resolve with some visual aids, though. Even systems that do mechanically support TotM can benefit from some abstract use of minis/counter/whatever and a 'map' showing relative positions or range bands or whatever.

 

[pemerton]

Neither 3e nor 4e used facing, either.

4e simulates facing by using blasts: many gaze attacks or cone attacks, for instance, are blasts ie affect only one side of the attacker - which simulates the fact that the attacker is facing in that direction.

(Btw, I don't think you disagree with me on this - the point is just one of clarification for those not familiar with 4e.)

The move from move within reach triggering to leaving reach triggering is another concession to TOTM play... because in TOTM, it's easy to delineate - if you change targets, your old opponent gets the free hack.

What if the new target was within reach of you without having to leave the reach of your first target? This could easily happen in a close melee.

Essentially, in 5e, you can circle your opponent all you want. Depending on where another opponent is, circling the one you're engaging might let you engage him, as well (you'd be flanking yourself - but 5e doesn't use flanking

In other words, this!

My group uses TOTM, and it got a little bit stretched yesterday because there was an encounter where one opponent was 10' away and a group of opponents were 150' away. But I just wrote the distances for everybody next to their initiative, which I track on a whiteboard, and it all worked out.

In my 4e game I've run combats in which the "grid" is just a list of names and distances/separations on a sheet of paper.

But I'm not sure that counts as "theatre of the mind". Maybe it does?

When I used to run Rolemaster and AD&D, we didn't use grids or tokens - if a visual representation was needed I would draw one up, and we mark movement using arrows if necessary. The difference with 4e is that there are so many abilities that make a big deal of modest amounts of movement (shifts, forced movement, etc) - this is quite different from Rolemaster or AD&D, and using a grid and tokens helps make sure these rules are implemented consistently.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Is there actually anything in the PHB or DMG that helps people play TotM combat?

DMG p. 249: Adjudicating Areas of Effect.

 

[The Human Target]

I agree with the OP: ToTM is perhaps the major drawcard of 5e for me. It's the default as far as I understand it. The grid etc are optional rules in DMG aren't they?

I've played 2e and 5e Totm, and 3e and 4e required grids (in my view, or at least that's how we played). I have fun with both. But... I greatly prefer TotM. It is just infinitely flexible. Any kind of fight can break out anywhere anytime and it is easy to resolve. PCs want a one session surprise side trek - no worries! Off they go. Woot! I love it.

Not needing mini's or mats is very liberating. It is also consistent with the primary advantage TRPGs have over computer games: that players can try anything anytime, and the DM can respond in kind.

Anyone can easily do that with grids.

That's what wet erase mats are for.

No one says you even need "correct" minis. Or any minis.

TotM and grid have differences, but freedom isn't one of them.

 

[wedgeski]

That's just more and more fiddly numbers to work with. That's not so great for TotM.

Player: "Can my fireball reach the wizard at the top of the tower?"
DM: "Sure."
Player: "Okay I do it."
DM: "Awesome. The minaret blows off the top like a firework."

TotM is not some magical set of abstractions, it's just the trick of not getting bogged down in the detail. If you really want to fuss over an extra few feet at the margin of a spell, use a grid. That's what the grid is good at.

 

[The Human Target]

Player: "Can my fireball reach the wizard at the top of the tower?"
DM: "Sure."
Player: "Okay I do it."
DM: "Awesome. The minaret blows off the top like a firework."

TotM is not some magical set of abstractions, it's just the trick of not getting bogged down in the detail. If you really want to fuss over an extra few feet at the margin of a spell, use a grid. That's what the grid is good at.

The point being that D&D is a game that worries about the difference between a speed of 25 feet and a speed of 20 feet.

It is a game of exact distance, even if people choose to handwave them.

As opposed to say Edge of the Empire, which is a true TotM game and uses only abstract measurements like "close" and "far."

 

[houser2112]

You call it

not getting bogged down in the detail

I call it "not having to ask the DM in the first place".

Player: "I move here and cast fireball. Ogres 1, 2, and 4 take... *roll*... 42 fire damage, Dex save DC 15 for half damage."
DM: "*roll**roll**roll*... Ogre 1 makes his save and is still alive, but very crispy. Ogres 2 and 4 weren't so lucky and are piles of ash."

 

[pickin_grinnin]

I'm not a big fan of miniatures, battlemats, etc. - they make it feel too much like a wargame to me. I prefer the "theater of the mind" approach to rpgs, both as a GM/DM and a player.

The only reason I play Pathfinder is that it's hard to find people who want to play anything else in this area.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I'm happy playing ToM or with minis. We usually use minis. I love painting and playing with them.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Anyone can easily do that with grids.

That's what wet erase mats are for.

No one says you even need "correct" minis. Or any minis.

TotM and grid have differences, but freedom isn't one of them.

I've never found the "Well, you can play this way, (but 99% of the way it's actually played is with grid maps and minis)" to be a very compelling or strong counter argument.

I'm happy playing ToM or with minis. We usually use minis. I love painting and playing with them.

Me too. I have tons of minis. Love 'em. But I prefer to use them only for huge combat, or general marching orders. Hardly ever on maps or grids.