Why I Think Rolling For Hit Points is a Bad Thing

[Fifth Element]

The randomness of attack rolls can mean that a party is wiped.
The randomness of saves can mean that someone dies when they really shouldn't.

Yes, and how many attack rolls and saving throws does a character make each level? Dozens? Scores?

How many times does he roll for hit points per level? Once.

If you want randomness to even out, you need a sufficient number of die rolls. One per level don't cut it.

 

[matthulhu]

I can't believe people worry about someone cheating on a hit point roll (and some of those same people are okay with a static HP boost that is larger than any hit die max result). If you are okay with big HPs, do you really care if someone fudges their HP roll? More importantly, why aren't players rolling their HPs at the campaign table, in plain view of other players? Even more importantly, why would you play any game (or even socially interact) with the type of person who would cheat on an HP roll (or try to cheat at D&D at all)?

The only time I've even wondered about whether someone could possibly even be cheating in D&D is with 4e rules, where the players have pages and pages of different numbers and keywords, more than any one person could keep in their head. It was either double-check every power someone used or just take them at their word that now they get a +21 and glowing eyes for a round or whatever. But even then I didn't "worry" about cheating because, wow, how low can you sink in life? So someone cheats at D&D- good for them. It got them nothing, and the act would almost certainly stick out like a sore thumb over time. Everyone would mock the poor schmuck- cheating to out-nerd his friends. Heck we might even give the cheater's character some bonus XP, just out of pity.

I want to assume that the "cheating" worry is a false one meant to over-emphasize the position of those who want to do away with the beautiful randomness of D&D, but then there are people who think Volvos are beautiful cars so it never proves productive to make assumptions about the beliefs of passionate people.

HD rolls are awesome fun and one of the things that is fundamental to my personal sense of D&D-ness. It's part of leveling, which is a ridiculous concept to begin with but one that is inextricable from D&D (though some edition will try to do with it someday, I'm sure). Easy-to-add options include minimum results or even auto-max HP for the HD roll for first level (a fairly common practice in plenty of D&D and D&D-like games from every edition that has HD rolls) and re-rolling all HD rolls that result in a 1 (though I usually only consider that last result for fighters).

 

[pemerton]

What evidence is there that PCs roll for hit points? The progression for the playtest PCs seems to indicate that hp are equal to CON + (level * half HD type). So the fighter, with a d12 hd, has 6 hp per level, the cleric, with a d8, 4 hp per level, the rogue, with a d6, 3 hp per level, and the mage, with a d4, 2 hp per level (+CON at 1st level in each case).

 

[Wiseblood]

Why? For starters, ability scores are typically rolled with 3 or 4 six-sided dice. This creates a bell curve where average scores are far, far more likely to be generated than either very high or very low scores.

This is wrong. After first level they are subject to bell curve dynamics.

 

[Wiseblood]

Yes, and how many attack rolls and saving throws does a character make each level? Dozens? Scores?

How many times does he roll for hit points per level? Once.

If you want randomness to even out, you need a sufficient number of die rolls. One per level don't cut it.

Yes but you do not get to use the sum of your attack rolls and saving throws.

 

[Ajar]

If the plan for D&DN is to present simple options in the core and then more complex options as optional modules, fixed HP per level should be what's in the core, and the random method should be in a module.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Characters really shouldn't be gaining that many hit points per level, regardless of the random aspect.

I agree! I want to see the flatter math aspect of 5e apply to HP as well as to stats and bonuses.

Essentially, you are 44.987% likely to get hit points within the 11-point 50-60 range, and 91.208% likely to get hit points within the 31-point 40-70 range.

Given that average hit points are 55, that's a 91.208% chance that randomly rolled hit points are within 15 points of the average.

Thank you for your detailed analysis, but let's look at this at the 20 level range. Over 20 levels, you are 91% likely to get hit points within the 80-140 range. That's still a difference of up to 60 hit points, which is a pretty big deal. And nearly 1 out of 10 players will have an even greater difference than that. That's not an insignificant percentage of players.

 

[matthulhu]

If the plan for D&DN is to present simple options in the core and then more complex options as optional modules, fixed HP per level should be what's in the core, and the random method should be in a module.

This would make perfect sense- if the "fixed HP" are simply equal the max value of the hit die. Plenty of DMs over the years have done this anyways, especially if we're talking about first-level characters.

But really, this doesn't even need a "module." It needs a single phrase in the PHB. "At character creation, and upon gaining a level, your character receives a certain amount of hit points determined by his class's hit dice. Depending on the assumptions of your DM's campaign, you will either roll your hit die to determine an HP value or use the maximum value of your hit die in lieu of rolling."

 

[Szatany]

Having 50% more hit points is an enormous advantage for a fighter, one that was not acquired by giving up something else of value. It's just better, period.

It might be enormous, it might be not. Depends on the level. At level one, a fighter with 15 hp has a minor advantage over a fighter with 10 hp.
At high level, a fighter with 150 hp has indeed a strong advantage over a fighter with 100.

 

[pemerton]

this doesn't even need a "module." It needs a single phrase in the PHB. "At character creation, and upon gaining a level, your character receives a certain amount of hit points determined by his class's hit dice. Depending on the assumptions of your DM's campaign, you will either roll your hit die to determine an HP value or use the maximum value of your hit die in lieu of rolling."

Unless I'm badly confused, the playtest characters get half HD max hp per level, +CON.

What have I missed that is even bringing rolling for hp onto the radar?