Why Identify?

[reanjr]

It goes along with the theme of making the Wizard, the most powerful (because of versatility) class in the game, very costly to play. The material components of the higher level spells is enormous, as are the scribing costs. Some folks might not like it, but it's true.

"But ID is only a 1st level spell," you might say. True, but it maintains its value as you gain levels, letting you know every function of a magical item. All magical weapons and armor are masterwork, and so are worth more than the 100gp already. So you never have to worry about losing money.

At least they changed the casting time to 1 hour instead of 8... gods that was annoying.

I actually prefer the 8 hour time. It seems more like research then. And it stops the players from taking a short break in some niche in a dungeon and figuring out what a magic item does. I really like the process of trying to figure out how a magic item works in game. It's fun.

On a related note, how do DMs out there describe the effects of a +3 weapon as opposed to a +2 weapon? I usually will tell the player after a couple of battles of using the weapon what it is for convenience. Is there a better, less meta-gaming way?

 

[Lamoni]

On a related note, how do DMs out there describe the effects of a +3 weapon as opposed to a +2 weapon? I usually will tell the player after a couple of battles of using the weapon what it is for convenience. Is there a better, less meta-gaming way?

I can't think of one... and that is how it works for us too. If we find an item and start using it, after a short while we are told exactly what it does for simplicity and convenience. However, it doesn't make much sense that the players would know exactly what it was without an identify spell. That is why I plan on making the identify spell easier to use.

I understand that it can be fun to have the party figure out through trial and error the qualities of items though... that is why I plan on using cursed items occasionally. I am a fan of cursed items that are useful with drawbacks like armor of arrow attraction.

 

[RuminDange]

The annoying time it took to id items in 3.0 and the fact you only got the lowest power ever for 100gp is one of the reason IMC I rewrote both Identify and Analyze Dweomer to better suit my players desires. Now Identify works off of Knowledge (Arcane) and gives the caster one power per level in which they can id, it is no longer limited to one item. Also the time was reduced to 10 minutes +1 minute per power id casting time /duration. The pearl component still exists but they can op to not use one and use 20XP instead.

One of arguments my players brought up was this: “Where in the h#ll are you going to get a pearl in the desert? What to mages there use for identify?” Now we were not playing in a desert, and pearls were easy to come by on the island kingdom home the players are from, but didn’t matter, they had a valid argument since there are deserts in the world? So I rewrote and customized them for my game and players.

So far it has worked great for our style of play, but I would also consider allowing another type of gem worth 100gp to be used as well, so that those that don’t have access to pearls due to environment don’t always have to burn XP.

RD

 

[Felix]

I actually prefer the 8 hour time. It seems more like research then. And it stops the players from taking a short break in some niche in a dungeon and figuring out what a magic item does. I really like the process of trying to figure out how a magic item works in game. It's fun.

Sure, to some degree. But when you have to spend three days figuring out what two rings, some armor, a helmet, two gloves and a sword do, it wears on you. Especially since the other members of the party have that 3 days to do whatever they want and the wiz is stuck in a room doing nothing; it maybe in character for a cloistered wizard, but the player doesn't have much of an opportunity to do otherwise with role-playing.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I'm wondering if the game would really be THAT horribly unbalanced if magic items didn't require identification at all. "Eh, any schmuck can recognise a +2 holy flaming spiked gauntlet"

 

[dcollins]

Sure, to some degree. But when you have to spend three days figuring out what two rings, some armor, a helmet, two gloves and a sword do, it wears on you.

But of course, prior to 3.5, you could do all that in a single casting of identify in 8 hours (assuming you're 7th level or higher).

I'm wondering if the game would really be THAT horribly unbalanced if magic items didn't require identification at all. "Eh, any schmuck can recognise a +2 holy flaming spiked gauntlet"

Unbalanced, I'm sure not. Uninteresting, flavorless, non-fantastic, and reducing D&D to nothing but number-crunching, I'd say "yes" to.

 

[RuminDange]

Sure, to some degree. But when you have to spend three days figuring out what two rings, some armor, a helmet, two gloves and a sword do, it wears on you. Especially since the other members of the party have that 3 days to do whatever they want and the wiz is stuck in a room doing nothing; it maybe in character for a cloistered wizard, but the player doesn't have much of an opportunity to do otherwise with role-playing.

Another good reason to change it that I forgot about.

 

[Dimwhit]

I'm more annoyed at the casting time of 8 hours. I constantly gripe about this spell. Why make it so hard to learn what an item does? One of my DMs says it's to encourage trial an error. For a weapon or armor, sure. But what about wands? Staffs? Even potions? Without identify, you can't use a wand or even figure out what it is. (UMD aside--it may not be available.) Then there's the fact that you don't get to learn everything about an item, just the primary feature.

I don't know, this is a regular rant with me. I just don't see any imbalance with learning everything about new items. And make Identify a 10 minute spell or something. Maybe an hour. But 8? It's unnecessarily annoying.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I'm more annoyed at the casting time of 8 hours. I constantly gripe about this spell. Why make it so hard to learn what an item does?

What's funny is that, in REAL time, around the gaming table, saying "ok, I cast identify when we get to the inn" takes, what, 2 seconds? And having your characters do all sorts of wierd tests and experiments to figure out what cloaks, weapons, rings, etc... do could take an hour or more. Of course, in "game time," experimenting is faster, because you don't want to spend 8 freakin' hours casting one spell, but in real life casting is so much more time-efficient.

 

[GentleGiant]

What's funny is that, in REAL time, around the gaming table, saying "ok, I cast identify when we get to the inn" takes, what, 2 seconds? And having your characters do all sorts of wierd tests and experiments to figure out what cloaks, weapons, rings, etc... do could take an hour or more. Of course, in "game time," experimenting is faster, because you don't want to spend 8 freakin' hours casting one spell, but in real life casting is so much more time-efficient.

Except those 2 seconds often turn into a lot more when the DM then asks the rest of the group what they do in the 8 hours while the wizard is busy identifying.
I've been in that situation (since I often play a wizard) and I've had to sit idly by, sometimes for hours, while the rest of the group, most often the rogue (and/or bard) and the cleric, goes gallivanting all over town (if the group has settled down in a town to identify, of course).