D&D 5E Why is animate dead considered inherently evil?

[Tolerable Tyrant]

I'm having a troublesome time understanding why the animate dead spell is considered evil. When I read the manual it states that the spall imbues the targeted corpse with a foul mimicry of life, implying that the soul is not a sentient being who is trapped in a decaying corpse. Rather, the spell does exactly what its title suggests, it only animates the corps. Now of course one could use the spell to create zombies that would hunt and kill humans, but by that same coin, they could create a labor force that needs no form of sustenance (other than for the spell to be recast of course). There have also been those who have said "the spell is associated with the negative realm which is evil", however when you ask someone why the negative realm is bad that will say "because it is used for necromancy", I'm sure you can see the fallacy in this argument.

However, I must take into account that I have only looked into the DnD magic system since yesterday so there are likely large gaps in my knowledge. PS(Apon further reflection I've decided that the animate dead spell doesn't fall into the school of necromancy, as life is not truly given to the corps, instead I believe this would most likely fall into the school of transmutation.) PPS(I apologize for my sloppy writing, I've decided I'm feeling too lazy to correct it.)

 

[Umbran]

There is no need for the game designers to forcefeed their outdated moral systems to the players.

That is not an absolute - it depends upon what the game designers are trying to do.

Also, need we note that the "outdated" nature of the moral system is... well, there's a whole lot of room for discussion on that.*

If one of the goals of producing the setting is to get people to ask the moral question about use of the undead, then leaving it ambiguous, or going against the common trope, is a solid choice.

But, if the authors are not interested in that question, then taking a solid stance on it allows them instead to allow focus to fall on whatever things they do want the audience thinking about.




*For example... anyone here watch the Amazon series, Upload?

Spoiler: Some bits about the show

It posits a world in which those who are about to die can upload their brain patterns into a virtual universe. One major point they make in the series is that those who have been uploaded are not allowed to vote, work, or the like. They get to hang out in their virtual world, but not have any economic or political connection to the real world.

So, what happens when the corporation that runs the virtual environment starts using uploading to create a slave race of virtual beings, or change who is available to vote in real-world elections?

 

[nevin]

But there are some things that are cultural that have been around long enough in most cultures of the world, they can be considered objectively good or bad.

Murder, messing with corpses, physically hurting someone, Profiteering after disaster's. Being rude, stealing the list could take awhile to compile.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

but the one you grew up in isn't the one it changed too today. Everyone was raised in a specific manner and taught objective things that may have changed now that you are older. objective just being the facts and culture of what you were taught growing up. Not the changed version you'll argue today. Unless the things you were taught changed while they were teaching them to you?

 

[jgsugden]

Have we circled back to discussing casting Animate Object on a corpse, yet? That is my favorite part of this never ending circle.

In the end, this tends to be a houseruled area. As such, talk to your DM. In my setting, creating undead is inherently evil for 2 reasons:

1.) Drawing upon this type of necromantic requires manipulating death and taking energy from the source of all death. That weakens the borders between the Prime Material Plane and the Shadowfell, and between the Shadowfell and the Negative Energy Plane. Both of those increase the chances of random undead being generated.

2.) If the soul/spirit has not passed on entirely (which takes weeks), then the spirit/soul can't move on ... and is slowly consumed by the undead. Even a skeleton or zombie will slowly consume the soul of the recently deceased. Participating in the destruction of a spirit/soul is one of the few undeniably evil acts in my setting.

Even when a long dead skeleton that has seen the soul/spirit pass on centuries ago is animated, the first issue remains - the weakening of the borders ... and that is increased in intensity when the snimated undead has no soul/spirit to consume.

HOWEVER, if someone wanted to play a "good necromancer" in my setting, I'd ask them what they were trying to do and we'd have a discussion. I very rarely say no to a character concept. I can come up with a few different approaches that I'd approve:

1.) Seeker - you believe (for some reason) that it is possible to animate undead without the evil impacts and are studying necromancy to figure it out. You're willing to do a little harm to figure out how to do it.

2.) Life source animation - You've located sacred texts that reveal a different path. Instead of animating the undead by infusing them with negative energy, you create undead by infusing them with positive energy. Your undead are similar to negative energy undead, but different in subtle ways. However, you do not understand the full raifications of your techniques...

3.) Transmutation - Don't play with souls, play with corpses. You use magics similar to animate object to animate physuical undead using transmutation and conjuration magic, not necromancy. The use of corpses is about the showmanship. Yes, defiling a corpse is probably a bit of a no-no in the eyes of many ... but not to you. To you, it is just refuse. You find it useful to use the superstitions of others to their deficit by creating animates that scare them with their spooky design.

4.) You're cursed - You are cursed with a greater curse (no remove curse spell for you - you need a wish) that infuses you with negative energy. If you do not dissipate it through creating undead, undead randomly spawn around you - and you can't control those. If you die, the negative energy goes off like a bomb. Animating dead is an evil, but it is the lesser of two evils ... and if you only animate the truly wicked, you're also enacting vengeance on them, right? Maybe even protecting them from eternal torment in hell?

5.) Alien morality - You're a thri-kreen or some other alien creature that doesn't have the same values or priorities - and doesn't really care if the place you're visiting falls into eternal darkness due to excessive necromancy. Further, you have a bag of corpses from your far off place that you animate ... So you avoid the elves, humans, dwarves, etc... that populate the local lands.

6.) Ignorance - You learn the magic without knowing what the negatives are. You'll have to address it once you learn ... which is role playing gold.

Are these good? No. But I could argue they are mostly non-evil intentions. Not 5 ... that is still evil, but something that could still work in a party with other PCs of heroic natures, potentially.

 

[billd91]

So what about a culture like the Elves of Eberron, who have persistent ancestor worship and have their dead relatives walking around as Deathless? Sure, the Deathless are animated by positive energy, but they still look like decayed corpses!

People frequently come up with exceptions (even kind of dumb ones like "good" liches among elven populations or elven ruins). Just recognize you want to work with an exception and accept that a fair number of people are going to scoff at it or any implication that it fits a non-evil moral philosophy.

 

[Mind of tempest]

you are abusing the laws of reality by making dead things get up and walk around. been considered evil since Myth's were created.

THIS is why it's evil.

hey that has no bearing on weather it is moral if you assume the gods are not the ultimate sources of moral good and those guys argue all the time over super dumb stuff.

Those in power aren't willing to admit it's not evil, because they can get away with it, despite what the rest of the population thinks. Honestly, in Thay it's a form of slavery.

it is thay they could make anything evil, evil is closer to motivation than a thing itself.

People that commit the most heinous and evil acts rarely believe they are evil.

99% of humanity does not believe they are evil thus it is useless to say that, most people think they are mostly good it is part of how human psychology works.

Everybody has a source for objective morality in real life. it's called the culture you grew up in.

culture is an endless muting cluster of ornaments it is about as far from objective as is humanly possible.
secondly the implications of that statement is insane and useless.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Have we circled back to discussing casting Animate Object on a corpse, yet? That is my favorite part of this never ending circle.

In the end, this tends to be a houseruled area. As such, talk to your DM. In my setting, creating undead is inherently evil for 2 reasons:

Sorta, but not without the pre-packaged fights and animosities. Your ideas are good. I like my long-ago stated position: it's evil because the nefarious mage who raises an army of the dead is a common trope to include in a fantasy milieu, nothing more, nothing less (and feel free to modify if you want to do something different in your game).

 

[Stormonu]

Not quite related to this discussion, but as a side note, in my campaign I would not allow Animate Object to be used on a corpse. Round hole, square peg sort of situation.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Sorta, but not without the pre-packaged fights and animosities. Your ideas are good. I like my long-ago stated position: it's evil because the nefarious mage who raises an army of the dead is a common trope to include in a fantasy milieu, nothing more, nothing less (and feel free to modify if you want to do something different in your game).

Sure. And I admit my position on this is influenced by the fact that I like subverting tropes. In my game it is more likely that a creepy necromancer is a misunderstood hero and a paladin in a shining armour turns out to be a judgemental bigot. Granted, you shouldn't overdo this as then the subversion itself becomes the trope.

 

[James Gasik]

Not quite related to this discussion, but as a side note, in my campaign I would not allow Animate Object to be used on a corpse. Round hole, square peg sort of situation.

Just out of curiosity, why not? Does animate objects not work on organic matter in your setting, so no animating wooden tables? Are items made from whalebone exempt?

Do you draw the line at things that were crafted and made into objects or is it the material itself?