Why is Animate Dead [Evil]?

[Old Fezziwig]

Originally posted by Coik
Except that gunpowder *is* a refined substance, and even if it wasn't it probably wouldn't naturally congregate in barrels...

I walked right into that one, didn't I?

Best,
tKL

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I think this is precisely what I was talking about in my earlier post. If you assume that utilitarianism and/or contractualism explain everything there is to know about morality, and that magic is just another form of technology you're right and what the Dustmen do isn't evil. If you don't make any of those assumptions, what the dustmen are doing could be incredibly vile--whether they know it or not.

This doesn't seem inherently evil, since they have permission, and you get used to the countless zombies wandering around in the Hive. It's not like they hurt anybody... usually. =\
What do you guys think?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Well, at the very least, if [a fireball spell] violates the nature of causality.

Only the nature of naturalistic causality as we understand it in our world through the perspective of modern science. If you take a step back from the modern perspective and accept the realities of the D&D universe, there's no reason why the wizard wiggling his fingers, incanting certain words, and throwing a small ball of sulphur and bat guano could not be either the immediate or proximate cause of a fireball exploding.

Which gods, and why do they have a say in it in the first place? The gods don't have any right to go around bossing mortals (though, of course, like any bullies they're certain to try). Really, who made *them* the dictators of morality? I can understand them saying that the power they happen to bribe people into becoming clerics with can't be used for certain things, but to try to make universal claims about something like that...

Of course, it you want to take the anti-gods stance outlined above, you're left with only two choices: either believe in a kind of platonic disembodied "good" as the arbitrator of morality (as stance which is just as easy to mock and not much easier to defend) or say all morality is a fiction to begin with and settle down into comfortable existential nihilism. But if you take the latter option, then there's no point in discussing why, how, or on what basis animating dead could be evil so one might as well leave the discussion as champion that position.

Of course, that's just the prude gods who try to run peoples' lives for them. If we're talking the quote unquote "default pantheon," Pelor and St. Cuthbert are good examples of them.

Right. The non-"prude" gods like Hextor, Nerull, and Erythnul are just happy to let everyone go about their lives as they see fit.

 

[green slime]

IMO, WotC chickened out and has far too few spells with an [alignment] descriptor.

Of course, given the discussion a simple spell as animate dead causes, this is not surprising.

Perhaps there should be some further explanation in the spell description, to make clear the whys and wheretofores.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

an animated corpse is wholly unnatural—aside from fuddling around with the dead and casting spells on other people's corpses, you really aren't going to get zombies. There's just no way. My opinion, of course.

Yellow
Musk
Zombie

Just throwin' it out there.

 

[Mark]

Re: Re: Why is Animate Dead [Evil]?

In the traditional myths and legends from which D&D spawned, mucking with the dead is bad mojo. The "energy is energy, neither good nor evil" and "the corpse is just meat" are modern thoughts.

And somehow, I think that if the dead started clawing themselves out of their graves and shambling after us trying to claw us to pieces, we'd quickly abandon that modern view for a more traditional one

When designing a game, one must make some choices. In D&D, the designers made a choice to follow the traditional line.

...yup...

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

Just throwing this out there too.
What if a good necromancer asked the corpse's soul for the use of the body before raising it? Who's to say that a long dead hero wouldn't allow his corpse to be raised if he thought it was for the greater good...

Would that be evil?

Edit: Just to make sure I'm being clear. Would it still be considered evil to raise a corpse as undead if you had permission from the soul first and it was for a Good reason?

 

[Hand of Evil]

Soap box please - Define evil in your games, list those things that are your (DM) view of evil. this builds your would myth and prevents "Why is..."

Okay some reasons why it could be evil:
Spreading of sickness, rot, pox, name it, the dead walking the streets and interacting with the pop can't be healthy. Hey, if this was d20 Mod I am sure you can be sued for endangering the public.

What right? If you watch the history channel and saw the grave robber show, you would know a body is just a husk but things have changed now, we sort of respect the dead. What gives you the right to take the body and use it like that. While the soul may be off in the happy hunting grounds, you enslave the body. Yes, slavery! Think about it.

The god of the dead: Maybe he gets the soul but is not the body his too? Is he the god that brings them back?

 

[Gnarlo]

Let's see, the living dead are:

*unwashed
*smelly
*never take off or change their clothes
*avoid daylight
*have no social skills or manners
*have generally poor conversational skills
*have interests not commonly thought of as mainstream

Sounds like the living dead are gamers to me. And as many people can tell you, gamers are EEEEEVIIIIIILLLLLL!!!!

/gnarlo!

 

[Vaxalon]

One really has to wonder about the personal morality of a player who would argue that animating dead bodies isn't an evil act.

Hey, if "meat is meat" then there's nothing wrong with eating human flesh, right? Or making a book cover out of human skin?

In modern society, the corpses of the dead are often used. Corpses are donated to medical schools. Organs are donated to those who need them. These are GOOD ends, and this outweighs the harm of mucking about with corpses.

Medical students are cautioned that no part of the corpse that they are assigned is to be taken out of the mortuary where they do their dissections. No souvenirs. After they are done, the bodies are collected together, cremated, and properly buried.

Even in our "modern" sensibilities, animating the dead would be rather universally reviled.