Why is Dragonlance Your Least Favorite Setting?

[Kibo]

I see... So you're telling me that if you were in a class, and the teacher/prof gave you an assignment to do an analysis of a 'work of literature' you'd turn a 12 page paper on the Dragon Lance series? If you do ever do such a thing, please post back with the grade you get and a description of the look on the teacher's face when you asked for an explanation.

How about I do him one better. For my paper in my modern/post-modern Literature class that was most of our grade, at a respected 4 year university, I wrote about how action adventure movies totally supplanted the surrealist movement, specifically using Aliens as an example. Grades? Paper 3.9/4.0 class 3.8/4.0.

I hated those lame ass books of pretensious French people seeking a more real, and higher level of pretensiousness. But I don't just owe my grade to an obnoxious paper that implied I thought my professor wasted his time learning French for the sole purpose of reading that crap in the original language. I also owe it to my history majoring roomate, who taught me that the way to get a good grade and make a paper that was laughably easy to write, was to pick the most obnoxious opinion you could think of and find everything to defend it. How true.

If I can do that, he could certainly write any sort of paper on Dragonlance, even on the prequel books, and be taken seriously.

Good day sir.

 

[cybertalus]

I loved the Chronicles books, in fact they're what got me into D&D. I read them and said "If the game is half this fun, I want to play it now!" The Legends books were less good, and it was all downhill from there.

The problem with DragonLance was that it needed to retire after the first set of modules and first trilogy of books. Not that I blame TSR or Weis and Hickman for making more stuff, because it kept making money.

My distinct impression is that the world was really designed specifically to tell the story of the War of the Lance, not for longterm viability as a stroytelling setting the way Greyhawk, Realms, Darksun, etc. were. That at least partly explains why all the various changes kept getting made to tell stories later.

But then I also have long thought that the DarkSun world of Athas is actually Krynn far in the future, so my opinions may be suspect.

 

[Kai Lord]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragonlance for D&D3e/d20

Sovereign Press is designing and writing the Dragonlance Campaign Setting book, but the Wizards of the Coast team will be editing the book and handling art, graphic design, and layout. That said, I think the "look" will be different than the Forgotten Realms, with a completely different style of art. But it should be equally gorgeous to the Forgotten Realms hardcover!

That's awesome, Jamie, I must say that sounds like the best of both worlds. I'm curious, how much of the development of the game mechanics (the "you-know-what" bits... ) can you post on this forum? Is this hush hush nondisclosure act type stuff or do you want to share some ideas or just bounce ideas off of the fans? Like what classes (Wizards of High Sorcery, Knights of Solamnia) will be core and which will be prestige classes. Of course, I'm referring to War of the Lance era characters...I never read past Dragons of Summer Flame.

Is the book going to focus on whatever the "new era" of Krynn is or its signature time line (War of the Lance)? Anything on Krynn's past? I've seen the Dragonlance newsgroup....seems the regulars are mostly overzealous complainers. This forum might be a better place to get more "reasoned" fan feedback. I've been a fan of the setting since the Chronicles and Legends were released and that's where most of my fantasy roleplaying has taken place.

I think you might find a number of people here willing to help. Thanks for the info.

 

[jasper]

…I have to disagree with you here - the books leave me with ample material to write essays of literary criticism on. The novels definitely are more than just entertainment value, and have intertextuality with some classic works, they have plot as well as story, and the characters are not flat, though sometimes a bit stereotypical.

Rav…

First Rav I had go look up intertextuality meaning to intermingle while weaving, intertextuality is a term first introduced by French semiotician Julia Kristeva in the late sixties.
Just because I said was junk fiction does not mean it lacks plot and story. If lacked plot and story I would have compared to Friends.

First jolly ninja I read the dark sword trilogy, the first trilogy, the brother’s books, kaz the Minotaur, the meeting books etc. I just drop, except the big book, which had the history and recipes etc, them from my bookshelves to make room. Hey I drop some of Brooks, Stahselff (the sword books), Niven, etc. I don’t hate all the books they are just junk fiction sometimes above the monthly Star Trek books and some times below. Plus they over used the kinders. Kinders with Minotaurs etc.

The first time I read them I was in the Army in California so call it 83 or 84.

Now dragon lance.
Hey were is the Sgt Carter, Steel metal jacket D.I. I mean the grumpy warrior would likes kids and privates. Oh there you are Flint.
Where is Romans and Rebus, um Cain and Able, um put the twins brothers on the set. Yes I know ones a dumb Conan who loves his brother and promise his dearly beloved mom to protect wrestling Ras I mean the wimp.
Don’t came me a Whimp. Ras runs outside to cry and slash the director’s tires. Then leaves the knife in bar maid’s car.
Hey what is Bruce Campbell doing on the set? I know we need a happy go lucky thief. But even CGI effects don’t make it believed able. Hey bob’s kid is cute let save money and combine the troublemaker kid with the troublemaker thief. Get the Pepsi girl. She’s cute. And people will hate the character any way.
Hey love interest we need love interest
You buck tooth bar maid you been making eyes at Camp on how would you like to be a star.
Ok brother fighting to add time, thief and SSgt arguing to add time, Wait for got the leader.

Hey red I know your wedding with the Kennedy’s fail. Take that emotion and work into a brooding character. Hey got a good face. You need a love interest.

Ok she has to be warrior. But red Sonja is taken. Hum has tie together can’t be someone every one would not trust right off. So she has to be a babe. Um can’t get Campbell to play the part. Hey we make her a sister. The SSgt character never has a life except the military I mean the smithy. Hey the sister of the twins.

But red would then be dating a 9-year-old chief.

Okay make her older sister.

But then why didn’t mom ask her to take of the wimp.

DON’T call me a wimp. Ras runs out crying. Stops the moment the door closes. Pours sugar into the assistant’s tank. Leaves bag in director’s car.

Make you older sister who hated her mom and dad and changing diapers. So she ran away before dear mommy die.

One more thing. We need a traitor in the group to show how any person can fall to evil. Make it the sister because she slapped me when I pinch her on the bottom.

Boss if we have a traitor we need a victim boss.

I just had a brilliant Idea. You grip boy. Quit stroking you mustache. You’re a knight. But a poor knight.

Been done chief.

Alright son of poor knight. And you were poor because your father knighthood order was corrupt and disown him so…

Boss sounds like Black Shield of Far more. And you have to get over not being vote President of your D&D club.

What ever. And if Gary hadn’t pass out candy and d20 I would have won. So Strum. Sign this contract.

Strum what is this not completion penalty.

Just a minor detail. Just means if you know complete all three books your fined.

Ok bar scene. Everyone meets except the sister. The hoodlums come in a hassle every one. Then the disguised princess comes in. The goons hassle her. The party starts a fight and escape with help of befuddled wizard.

They escape and trap by a huge army. And as they nearly kill a secret path way through the mountain. No this is fantasy. A unicorn army saves the day.

That should cover the first quarter of the book.
Oh kill of the wizard character. The actor wants more money. We bring back like Lucas did oh bee gone.

 

[Jay_Kinnear]

I think in general it was the Books that kept wreaking things, the minute you got into the setting, something happened in the book that messed up the setting, and this didn't happen once it happened over, and over, and over again ad neusam so instead of being able to really get into it, most people where afraid their hard work, and well thought campaign could get shredded in an instant because they wanted to be loyal to the timeline and setting, and honestly the Fifth Age system was just the stupidest idea ever worse then Spellfire Ccg almost, and I mean the system itself some of the Fluff was quite amazing, and well done, what you have to realize, and this is a very clear thing, you can't change the setting every four years, you have to have something consistent not every story has to be earth shattering, you can tell smaller more personal stories of adventure. Those are my thoughts. And please no more Apoclypes, Krynn should honestly be barren and devoid of life by now if all the stuff that's happened to it is any indication.

 

[jollyninja]

to jasper

well put.

i have simply read to many posts where W&H are accused of ripping off stuff that was published after chronicles. as for the unoriginal character concepts, all an author can do is try to take the tired concepts and give them a little twist to make them their own. I think W&H have done an exemplary job of this in chronicles and ledgends. i honestly can't think of a single character in modern fiction who is not derivative of a previously existing character in such basic descriptions as you have provided. if you can please by all means tell me, give me something worth reading. this is not a flame, i liked your post. it's just that it's all been done so many times that nothing, when stripped down to that level, is original.

freely i admit that most dragonlance fiction ranges in quality from medoicre to abysmal, and i can't bring myself to read much of the new stuff. there was a time (right before summer flame and all the fifth age stuff) when i had read every dragonlance novel in print. i guess, i'm half the fanboy i used to be but without dragonlance chronicles and ledgends there would be no dnd in my life. so i'm sure you can understand my reluctance to pass it off as "junk" fiction. although i do see your point.

 

[Gargoyle]

On the coin issue

I'm no coin expert, but the U.S. did mint steel pennies during 1943, to conserve copper during the war. In fact, copper pennies from 1943 are worth quite a bit.

http://www.sammler.com/coins/wheat_pennies.htm#1943

So I don't really have a problem visualizing steel coins, as long as there is a believable rationalization. What was the reason for steel coins in DL anyway?

 

[vrykyl]

Re: On the coin issue

After the Cataclysm there was a severe economic breakdown and gold's value dropped. A crude barter system emerged, and steel arrowheads--forged by the hill dwarves--became one of the most commonly traded items. When the dwarves learned that the arrowheads were being traded, they began forging simple steel coins for trade. This became the foundation for the steel-based economy in the Age of Despair and the Age of Mortals.

Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.

I'm no coin expert, but the U.S. did mint steel pennies during 1943, to conserve copper during the war. In fact, copper pennies from 1943 are worth quite a bit.

http://www.sammler.com/coins/wheat_pennies.htm#1943

So I don't really have a problem visualizing steel coins, as long as there is a believable rationalization. What was the reason for steel coins in DL anyway?

 

[Ravellion]

I see... So you're telling me that if you were in a class, and the teacher/prof gave you an assignment to do an analysis of a 'work of literature' you'd turn a 12 page paper on the Dragon Lance series? If you do ever do such a thing, please post back with the grade you get and a description of the look on the teacher's face when you asked for an explanation.

I have. 7 out of 10 (grade title "above average"). It was about the role of the Elves as demonstrating the dangers of Isolationism.

I did not say I could, I said I DID...



BTW: For the University of Amsterdam, 2nd year course: Essay Writing (edit: I'll admit that this probably wouldn't have flown in a literary course)

Rav

 

[The Serge]

Re: Re: Dragonlance for D&D3e/d20

Jamie,

I sincerely hope that you each have a copy of the 3E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. From the art to the fluff to the crunchy bits, its a near perfect template for how to make a sourcebook. FRCS set the bar pretty high, please make every effort to meet or exceed it with Dragonlance.

I agree.

I would like to see to stats for the Heroes of the Lance and all other important NPCs as well officially updated for 3ed.

My major issue with Dragonlance is that it seemed to screech to a halt with 2ed. Suddenly, we had that Dragonlance saga stuff which was not my cup of tea (apparently, quite a few people agreed with me). Also, it's tough to deal with Dragonlance the game because the books took a life of their own in a way that most Forgotten Realms books never have.

Most Realm books (and I think they are generally poorly written compared to Dragonlance) deal with isolated areas or concerns. For the most part, the books written by Weis and Hickman are massive, world shattering issues that effect the entire game. This is what has impacted Dragonlance so drastically. As a result, the writers, who should not feel inclined to worry about the game, will eliminate characters, move into the distant future, and do other things that erode a fan base that wants to have the same NPCs around for years (as in Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms).